By a Newsnet reporter
 
The strength of feeling amongst Scots unhappy with a Conservative led UK Government has been revealed following a poll which shows eighty per cent of those asked did not agree that it was better for Scotland.
 
The poll of 1006 adults, conducted by YouGov on behalf of the SNP, also found that seven in ten Scots do not trust the Government in Westminster to take the right decisions for Scotland.

The survey will provide reminders of the difficulty facing Labour in Scotland as they officially cement their alliance with the Conservatives and their coalition partners the Lib Dems with today’s launch of the No campaign. 

The campaign will feature leading Conservatives, Lib Dems and Labour politicians and is to be spearheaded by former Labour Chancellor, Alistair Darling.

The Yougov poll, taken between the 21st and 23rd June, shows that only 17% of Labour supporters believe we are better as part of the UK when there is a Tory government.

When asked “how much trust, if any, do you have in the UK Government in Westminster to take the right decisions for Scotland”, only 28% who replied said “a great deal” or “a fair amount” compared to 69% who replied “do not trust much” or “not at all.”

When asked if they agree that “It is better for Scotland to be part of the United Kingdom when there is a Conservative Government in Westminster” – only 20% agreed, with 50% disagreeing.

The poll also shows a sharp division in opinions between Conservative voters and those who voted Labour and Lib Dem, with the latter two groups much more in line with SNP voters than with Tories.

SNP Campaign Director Angus Robertson said the results were a “severe blow” to the No campaign that highlighted the difficulties facing Labour.

Mr Robertson said:

“This poll comes as a severe blow to the 'Better Together' Labour/Tory alliance and highlights the real dangers for the Labour Party in their pact with the Tories, as they try to tell Scottish voters that we are better off today with Tory austerity, Tory welfare cuts and Tory plans to waste £100 billion on new nuclear weapons.

“By getting in to bed with the Tories like this, Labour is risking the same voter backlash which has already seen the Lib Dems all but wiped out in Scotland.

“With so few Scots trusting the Westminster government to do the right thing for Scotland, Labour now face the prospect of not only sharing a platform with hugely unpopular Tory politicians, but also telling Scotland that we are better off with these self-same Tory politicians in charge.”

Mr Robertson insisted that Scotland would be better off with self-government with decisions on the economy and equality taken by the people of Scotland.

He added: "Labour voters are more closely aligned with the SNP on these issues and yet the Labour leadership is siding with the Tory Party.  Today, the big question for the Labour Party is why would you rather have David Cameron making decisions about Scotland's economy and society?

“The people of Scotland don't trust the Government in Westminster, and clearly the Labour Party doesn't trust the people of Scotland."

The survey comes only days after another poll showed widespread support for a second option on the referendum ballot paper, something opposed by all three Unionist parties.

The MORI poll, commissioned by the Civic Scotland campaign “Future of Scotland”, showed that seven out of ten people in Scotland believed that the referendum ballot paper should include a Devo-Max option.

Comments  

 
# mudfries 2012-06-25 06:26
And Alistair Darling and the rest of the Unionist Labour party want Scotland to remain in the situation where we are at the mercy of a Tory government we didnt vote for! thats what he stands for, thats his vision for Scotland.
 
 
# CharlieObrien 2012-06-25 11:15
Aye and also lets them do as they please,and hold power.Labour party only cares for the Labour party it cares not for the people.
 
 
# UpSpake 2012-06-25 06:34
A negative No campaign led by a failed Chancellor pushing a backward agenda and the culture of dependence will 'resonate' with Scots, I don't think so.
The only negative aspect of all of this is the absence of fully developed policies from the SNP. If I were them I would have held back the launch of the Yes campaign until after the negative No lot had run out of starry eyed views of Monarchy, Britishness and Empire and then hit them with a positive view for Scotland's future. This nonsense from the SNP about keeping the pound and the Bank of England setting Scotland's interest rates is confusing and maintains a dependency subservient culture which I wish no part of.
I am a patriotic Scot and believe in progressive and radical moves to sever our ties to the union, all unions in fact.
The SNP might be popular and powering ahead, at the moment but they are stuttering forward with their undeveloped policies. That's why I prefer the SDA's vision for Scotland, and being a businessman, it more than resonates with me. Witness, no-one from the business community at the Yes campaign launch, - telling !.
 
 
# xyz 2012-06-25 07:15
Not sure why it's not being expounded by those in the know, but I believe that keeping Sterling, the BOE as lender of last resort, setter of the base rate and 'printer' of money is a policy designed for the smooth transition of Scotland and rUK to independent countries. Now that I've typed it, it seems so obvious.

We want to rock the world , but gently. :)
 
 
# Siôn Jones 2012-06-25 12:23
Absolutely! One step at the time. You can only chop off the queen's head (figuratively, off your bank notes) only once you have self government. A big mistake to introduce too many variables into the equation.
 
 
# mealer 2012-06-25 06:34
Better to be the sixth richest country
Better getting rid of nuclear missiles from the Clyde
Better not starting illegal wars
Better together? Aye.Right.
 
 
# J Wil 2012-06-25 06:53
Michael Moore seems to be convinced that Scots will trust the UK government to implement more devolved powers to Scotland without saying what they would look like before the referendum.

This must be the Unionists weakest position in their campaign.

The supporters of independence should be raising this question of trust at every opportunity. There are plenty of examples that can be given of where the UK government have reneged on their pre-election promises .
 
 
# nchanter 2012-06-25 08:35
Quoting J Wil:
Michael Moore seems to be convinced that Scots will trust the UK government to implement more devolved powers to Scotland without saying what they would look like before the referendum.

This must be the Unionists weakest position in their campaign.

The supporters of independence should be raising this question of trust at every opportunity. There are plenty of examples that can be given of where the UK government have reneged on their pre-election promises .

Michael Moore Oh dear, The sooner he and his ilk are put back in their box the better zero contribution to anything.
 
 
# clootie 2012-06-25 07:01
What about his opening remark - " our children getting a one way ticket to an uncertain future" - real positive message on the benefits of the union!

If only we could return to the heady days of a pink map of the empire and we ruled the waves - shall I stand now?
 
 
# Big Eye 2012-06-25 07:02
I am looking forward to the failed Chancellor using his primary school arithmetic and explaining how with fewer than one vote in ten within the Westminster Parliament Scottish priorities will dominate the political agenda for the next fifty years.
 
 
# xyz 2012-06-25 07:30
Talking about dodgy arithmetic, this from the NO campaign website:

Via twitter - 2014indy @2014indy
Dodgy arithmetic from better together campaign led by former chancellor Darling Picture: http
 
 
# Soloman 2012-06-25 08:54
Brilliant! Gives an insight into how some of these people screw the system ie £5 for 5 streets £50 for 20! 1st street should be London Road in Glasgow.
Also £500 weekly for a campaign supervisor? I thought these people were doing this for the love of their Union! So remove the housing benefit for under 25s and make them come out to post these leaflets.......
 
 
# davemsc 2012-06-25 09:13
This isn't necessarily dodgy arithmetic. It could just be an estimate on bulk buying, since it's relatively cheaper to do larger print runs than small ones.
 
 
# Soloman 2012-06-25 11:16
Take a look again, my wife said the same ie the more you buy the cheaper it becomes, however £5 for 5 streets £50 for 20 streets?
 
 
# Davy 2012-06-25 07:26
I have just listened to Alistair Darling on Radio Scotland and I dont know who the presenter was but he had Darling stuttering and havering and he was'nt even asking very hard questions. Bring it on.

Vote YES, Vote Scotland.
 
 
# Ready to Start 2012-06-25 07:29
Question should be Do you want a Tory Government or Self Government.

Why trust Alistair Darling a fraud who flips political parties and houses and imposes cuts deeper than Mrs Thatcher.

BBC Radio Scotland Call Kaye phone in is discussing the Bitter together NO ScCtland campaign.
 
 
# hiorta 2012-06-25 07:35
Unionist bonus for Scotland - Westminster back door democracy for both Tory parties.
 
 
# Aplinal 2012-06-25 07:43
Heard Darling on good morning "Jockland" this morning. He was actually challenged quite well (although not too much of a follow through), and he waffled his way around the issues. I paraphrase, but he said, "I believe that Scotland is better off in the Union" - hardly a ringing endorsement of the benefits of remaining dependent on the whim of Westminster politicians, is it?
 
 
# Corm 2012-06-25 07:45
Meh, a YouGov poll? Dont take the results with anything other than a pinch of salt.
 
 
# Dowanhill 2012-06-25 08:39
A failed chancellor who, when in his job was about to get sacked. Hardly an inspirational figurehead to rally the 'No' troops. Hope 'No' campaign keeps up the good work.
 
 
# Thee Forsaken One 2012-06-25 08:50
I'm a glutton for punishment. Is there going to be a place to watch the launch online?

Although has anyone actually looked at their website at the '+ve' case: bettertogether.net/.../.... Rather short isn't it?
 
 
# Sneddon 2012-06-25 09:27
That's some video. Wrong on so many levels it beggars belief I know it's wrong to laugh at the afflicted but for gods sake where did they find such ill informed people. One woman was proud of the scottish education system and didn't want that to be risked by independence!!! !!. I wonder what the actual questions they were asked before the editing began. Nice to hear AD and Anwar sounding foolish and wrong footed on Radio Jockland this morning.
 
 
# Marga B 2012-06-25 09:46
Dear oh dear, vague references to how much better we were than Ghana, and "as a nation (??) we're better together", "we've got Burns nights and ceilidhs and limited power over our own finances" (implying "what more could we want) and "particularly in Fife and Glasgow we've got our own sense of identity" (i.e. I'm a Labour voter) just watching one of these videos, which always faded off before the person could say anything but sound-bites was enough.

Tell me it's not all like that? Having said that, though, everyone watch your backs because McLellan (ex-Scotsman editor) has jumped ship from the dying press and is now on board and I imagine this kind of innocuous tripe is going to be replaced with something quite a bit more hard-hitting and if his Scotsman career is anything to go by not necessarily based on hard facts.
 
 
# DonMc 2012-06-25 09:17
Perhaps the good people of my city of birth, Glasgow, could point out where it was better together during the Hurricane of 1968 where many died and house ruined. Thousands homeless and what did the Labour Government of Wilson do? I will tell you what they did SFA. At the same time an oil spill threatened the SE of England and Wilson et al immediately donated 1,500,000 pounds to save the seagulls. But to be fair to the Westminster Government in London they did lend, yes lend 500,000 pounds to the Glasgow disaster area. Not one minister came down our way, but many went to save the seagulls. Who came to save our children and our elderly; no one. Aye better together, do me a favour. Not to mention when a hurricane hit the South of England and Wales about twenty years later money was no object to ensuring a speedy recovery. I honestly don't regret this, what does anger me is how small Scotland is on the radar of Westminster. Ok rant over.
 
 
# CharlieObrien 2012-06-25 11:39
I remember that day in January very well as I left East Kilbride to go to work I saw roofs lying in the street chimney stacks on the road,devastatio n,and we stood alone as usual.We are stronger together together as Scotsmen and women.
 
 
# Siôn Jones 2012-06-25 12:44
And in Aberfan, when the NCB had ignored warning of impending disaster, with a tip looming over the village, in 1966, waterlogged, it slipped down the mountain and engulfed a primary school, killing 116 children and 28 adults in the most hideous way imaginable.

a massive appeal was set up, raising millions for the relief fund. The Labour government made the appeal fund pay for the removal of the mess. Have you ever heard of anything so inhuman?

Oh - and eventually the queen turned up, and smiled and waved at everyone. I'm sure that helped.
 
 
# Onwards 2012-06-25 09:26
The BBC 'have your say' article today has some interesting comments from English voters, basically saying they wish they had the chance to vote on English independence..
 
 
# scotsmanc1 2012-06-25 09:28
"Better Together"

The No camp's slogan

Sounds to me about right. the Tories and Labour. Difficult to tell the difference.
 
 
# proudscot 2012-06-25 14:06
Quoting scotsmanc1:
"Better Together"

The No camp's slogan

Sounds to me about right. the Tories and Labour. Difficult to tell the difference.


Margo MacDonald was spot on, as usual, when she labelled Darling and his disreputable dependency cohorts, "The Abominable No-Men"!!!
 
 
# cadgers 2012-06-25 09:29
 
 
# tartanfever 2012-06-25 09:45
Sorry, I just don't get this. Sure I understand the poll and the SNP want to have something negative to announce on the 'No' campaign launch day - but isn't this poll really just stating the 'bloody obvious'.

We all know Scotland doesn't like a Tory led Westminster government. All Labour say in light of this poll is 'make sure you vote for Labour then'.

This poll just seems such a ham-fisted, long winded way of getting absolutely nowhere and actually, makes me think the SNP look all the weaker for it.

I've always had misgivings about the SNP attacks on the coalition of parties in the 'No campaign' - there's nothing wrong with like-minded parties joining together on policy which they agree on, after all, the greens support independence and therefore have joined with the SNP and shared a platform. A poll slamming the conservatives therefore, hardly damages labour, in fact, couldn't it be said to encourage people to vote labour as much as it does SNP ?
 
 
# tarbat 2012-06-25 09:55
So the NO campaign suggest that voting for independence is like "buying a one-way ticket to send our children to a deeply uncertain destination". Surely voting for dependence is also like "buying a one-way ticket to send our children to a deeply uncertain destination".

Without a very good crystal ball, any future for the nations of the UK is uncertain. I would prefer an uncertain future governed by a parliament elected by the Scottish people, rather than a Tory lead Westminster government dominated by MPs focused on the needs of London and the SE of England.

As an Englishman living In the south of England for 48 years, I was blissfully unaware of the poor deal Scotland gets from Westminster. Having now lived in Scotland for 7 years, my eyes have been opened to the significant advantages independence will bring to Scotland. Yes, living in the British Isles will mean I'll always be British, but I consider myself Scottish first, even though I was born in England.
 
 
# creag an tuirc 2012-06-25 15:04
Welcome to the site tarbat. I look forward to your views as the referendum debate moves forward.
 
 
# jim288 2012-06-25 09:59
Just checked the BBC news website

bbc.co.uk/.../...

For once we're allowed to comment on Scottish politics on the BBC.

Great to see that the highly rated comments are positive about independence.

Get over there!
 
 
# alexmc8275 2012-06-25 12:32
Looking at it there and it seems so pointless, some folk must be as thick as sh!t as they just keep coming up with the same old nonsense. What is the point arguing with people like that, it's just a re run of all the comments from CIF in the guardian. It's like watching constant re runs of lament and her question about Scottish steel on the forth bridge, terrible.
On the steel thing , why are we not using Scottish steel johann, have you Sussed it yet, very doubtful.
 
 
# Old Smokey 2012-06-25 10:12
Just watched a couple of the videos being put out by the No campaign
Frankly speaking the people featured are completely an utterly clueless!
Her is an example
bettertogether.net/.../...
'Small business owner' who sells jewellery clearly states and beleives that having a 'British' Logo on her jewellery ensures its not 'illegal' when selling overseas, as without the 'British' logo it would be illegal.
Someone should explain to her that it could easily have a 'Made in Scotland' and Scottish logo when selling overseas
She then went on to to say that a freind of hers had a kidney transplant and the kidney came from manchester, so this wouldnt be possible if Scotland was seperate from england - it really beggers beleif this kind of ignorance!

Ive noticed the push by the no campaign is about Scotland 'leaving' the UK and not ending the UK. There is a willful missinformation by the unionists to portray the UK carrying on, instead of being dissolved
 
 
# WRH2 2012-06-25 10:24
What about his opening remark - " our children getting a one way ticket to an uncertain future" - real positive message on the benefits of the union!
Clootie, couldn't agree more. But does this mean he knows what is coming our way from Westminster if we are daft enough to vote no. Now that is scary!
VOTE YES in 2014
 
 
# Thee Forsaken One 2012-06-25 10:29
Watch the launch here: bettertogether.net/.../...

The video on at the moment is dire.

EDIT: The daft wee lassie talking about feeling like an outsider if she went down to England post-independence is ridiculous. I've always felt like a foreigner, even before I was old enough to understand anything about politics or the relationships between nations in the UK. It's always felt like a foreign country to me since the day I was born.

EDIT 2: Oh come on Annabelle, you're usually better than this. Stop reading the cards!

EDIT 3: Real people? That's pushing it. The stuff they were coming out with was unreal.

EDIT 4: Interviews? More like Annabelle prompting the people to give out their prepared sound bites... Not to mention Annabelle does not really look that interested.

EDIT 5: If the armed forces are so special why are we making them redundant and wasting billions on a new Trident?

EDIT 6: EU farms seem to have little trouble getting their food into the UK at the moment. How will that change if Scotland becomes independence? False uncertainty strikes again.

EDIT 7: All of these people can seem to be summed up of as: 'I'm too scared to do anything that might rock the boat'.

EDIT 8: I don't get how Robbie's argument is for the Union. It just seemed to be about getting out into the community.

EDIT 9: Oh dear pulling out English accent jokes?

EDIT 10: Well the Englishman has definitely destroyed the idea it's an interview with his script in hands...

EDIT 11: Oops Mr. Shipbuilder used the I word. Although he seems to have forgotten there will be a Scottish Navy post independence.

EDIT 12: Mrs. Shipbuilder said it too. Also what is she talking about saying she wants her children to have apprenticeships ? I don't see the Scottish Government dropping them after independence.

EDIT 13: Can these cringe-worthy 'interviews' end soon?

EDIT 14: Wullie Rennie with some amusing lighting from beneath to make him look creepy as hell.

EDIT 15: Johan is looking a bit lost with the rest of them.

EDIT 16: If the Yes launch was a 'damp squib' then this launch was an absolute shocker.

EDIT 17: That ends my running commentary on the 'Better Together' launch.
 
 
# tarbat 2012-06-25 10:29
So, I listened to the launch. Where was the part where the NO campaign explain what extra powers will be devolved to Scotland if we vote NO. Do they really expect us to vote no without any clue what powers our Scottish Government will end up with. Talk about an uncertain destination!!
 
 
# J Wil 2012-06-25 10:40
I think anyone could have written Darling's speech, trotted out ten minutes ago. It was the same old mantra and cliches we have been hearing for the last two years, now burned into our brains.

I think Cameron's speech at 12:30 will take the wind out of the unionists sails when the people hear what Cameron has in store for the country and that it's all going to happen when they get back after the next election, uninhibited by the LibDems.

The thought of that should be the best motivator for Scots to say yes.

There are also tons of examples to show that Scotland has come off worst over the years in its association with the UK.

I wonder if the press were allowed to ask questions after Darling's speech and if so, what were they? Perhaps someone should point out that his main motivation for preserving the union is to allow him and his fellow Labour MPs to go to London and walk on the world stage.
 
 
# Old Smokey 2012-06-25 10:47
No campaign trying to re-write history it seems
bettertogether.net/.../...
First comment is good
Quote 'Ged Mitchell · St johns dundee
The English colonies abroad were not founded until James VI became the King of Scotland & England. So where were those imaginary territories of the English? The answer is there were none. Check it out yourself keeping in mind that you need to have people living there to claim it as yours. Just going around the world planting flags and then abandoning them is not having territories. What a shambolic twisting about of history...again.
en.wikipedia.org/.../...
 
 
# Frankly 2012-06-25 10:49
One gathers that Mr Darling is today trumpeting the notion that Scotland can have "the best of both worlds" by remaining in the UK. One hardly knows where to begin in addressing that tired old proposition, but, looking to the future, as we are, one struggles to see how Scotland could possibly have "the best of both worlds" as a part of the UK in the new European Union structure which is currently being developed by a group of ten EU foreign ministers led by Germany. This involves among other things an EU government accountable to a bicameral European Parliament with a member-state chamber. If the UK remains in the EU, which is doubtful, the atavistic Europhobic anglo-state would be representing, or rather misrepresenting , Scotland, as no role is envisaged for the governments of sub-state nations in the new legislative chamber.

What one might refer to as environmental factors are causing political integration to move on in Europe at a relatively rapid pace, which means among other things that, wherever Scotland turns, whether inside or outside the UK, it cannot avoid facing an uncertain future. Mr Darling is behind the times. Well behind the times. The days of cosy certitude are over.

The Shape of Things to Come:

tinyurl.com/7orp6qb
 
 
# Dundonian West 2012-06-25 10:59
BBC Scotland.Comments permitted!
bbc.co.uk/.../...
Alistair Darling:-
"Friends, neighbours, families - across borders - share ties that bind us together. What does this mean for us? It means that after centuries of common endeavour we should value those ties that bind us together and celebrate the diversity that exists around us."

Mr Darling----we're not paddlinng out into mid-Atlantic---we'll still be good neighbours and friends,as is the Republic of Ireland,making our own decisions for what is best for the PEOPLE in Scotland-----something Westminster CANNOT ever do,being outnumbered 11-1 approximately.
 
 
# Old Smokey 2012-06-25 11:28
Examples are a plenty as far as neighbouring countries in Europe getting along rather well and families crossing freely without hinderance.
common one we have is between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. You also have Norway and Sweden (been in Norway and seen it with my own eyes)and Sweden and Denmark (crossing featured in recent BBC Drama 'The Bridge') and guess what collectively Norway Sweden and Denmark are called Scandinavia. A very good example of sovereign countries in a social group
 
 
# X_Sticks 2012-06-25 12:15
I see the beeb is now massaging the +/- on the comments as they were all coming out VERY pro-independence!
 
 
# Dundonian West 2012-06-25 12:28
YES. 'The Editors' Picks' have been frantically altered.
All hands to the pumps,boys and lasses!

Better clicking on 'All comments'.
 
 
# WRH2 2012-06-25 13:50
Oh, I don't know. Mid-Atlantic sounds quite tempting if it means getting away from Darling, Beaker, Lament and the other members of the Bitter Together gang!
 
 
# proudscot 2012-06-25 11:12
It's a pity the entire Scottish electorate can't be compelled to watch just a few sessions of Scottish Questions, and the laughably titled Committee on Scottish Separation from the UK (Chaired by Ian "Who Cares" Davidson). That would demonstrate just how ANTI-Scottish most of the unionist MPs are, when they think they're not talking "in front of the children", i.e. the Scots!
 
 
# Aplinal 2012-06-25 12:32
I watched the video, and like others I am genuinely puzzled by the comments of these people. Are they "real" people, or actors? I know about the power of propaganda, I understand the two key 'principles' laid down by Goebbels:

Quote:
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”


But even so, I am staggered that "apparently" many Scots actually believe this trash.

What can we do to undo the decades of lies and misinformation? This, I believe, is the major challenge to those of us who can see through the smoke and mirrors of the pro-dependency parties.

If we lose that battle, we will undoubtedly lose the war.
 
 
# 1876 2012-06-25 12:34
''Bitter together''....''Sweeter Apart'' or to sum up the NO Campaign.....Woooooo!!! Wooooo!!!
 
 
# farrochie 2012-06-25 12:37
It's quite clear that the Westminster parties have one goal and that is to continue to RESERVE POWERS to the Westminster Parliament, while spreading the untruth that the UK is somehow giving Scots a greater place in the political world.

I'm really pleased that Dennis Canavan is being given a voice to expose some of the hypocricy of the three unionist parties.
 
 
# Mac 2012-06-25 12:41
How stupid of me! How did I not see this before?

1. Westminster control is good for Scotland.

2. Foreign and illegal wars are good for Scotland

3. Having nuclear weapons on the Clyde is good for Scotland.

4. Labour economic incompetence is good for Scotland.

5. Tory austerity cuts are good for Scotland.

6. David Cameron is good for Scotland.

7. Protecting the London rich and damning the Scottish young and poor is good for Scotland.

8. Having no real say in what is good for Scotland is good for Scotland.

It all makes sense now, where do I vote?
 
 
# border reiver 2012-06-25 18:06
Nice one mac but you missed out a few other things they think would be good for us i.e. £7.80p for prescriptions, student tuition fees of 40k. privatisation of car parking at NHS buildings, creeping privatisation of the NHS, ignoring large scale tax avoidance, subsidising the Westminster bars, stealing 6,000 square nautical miles of the north sea, reintroducing bridge tolls. Phew the list is endless
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-06-25 12:44
A comment on the BBC story sums up the confusion of the 'No' camp, and Darling's "No way back", for me: "If UK is such a fine thing, and if we Scots are so welcome and wanted in the UK, why wouldn't we be allowed back in if independence failed?"
 
 
# Dundonian West 2012-06-25 12:50
Exactly----the 'Prodigal Son' welcomed back with forgiveness and everlasting love.
We could even do another Treaty of Union!
 
 
# Mr Rational 2012-06-25 12:52
second youtube clip in on the bittertogether twitter page is 'a guide to preserving the union - a unionists guide'.

awkward lol!
 
 
# J Wil 2012-06-25 12:55
Glenn Campbell makes the not so subtle observation that the No campaign talked to ordinary people instead of wheeling out personalities.

It seems that Glenn himself has been wheeled out to be the BBC's man on the job. We will all be climbing the walls before this referendum takes place.

Whatever happened to his promotion to be the BBC Scotland reporter on the national news?
 
 
# gus1940 2012-06-25 17:27
And his introduction to comments on GD said that he was 'the man who saved the banks' - of course, no mention that he and his pal Brown destroyed The UK Ecomomy.

Denis Canavan slaughtered Sarwar on Radio Jockland this a.m. - he was brilliant and the Yes Campaign must make more use of him.
 
 
# schawaldowris 2012-06-25 13:00
I heard Mr Darling say that:-
"What I wants for Scotland is the best of both worlds"
Personally I would want Scotland to have the best in this world.
That means to be recognised by our sister nations as a free and independent state with full membership of the United Nations.
 
 
# border reiver 2012-06-25 13:31
Alistair Darling to lead the NO campaign. Served his apprentiship under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, chancellor when we had first run on a bank he had to nationalise Northern Rock then the rest of the failing banks, bankrupt the country with their crazy spending, caught up in Westminster expences scam, which was robbing the public purse. even Nick Clegg wanted him sacking. They must be scrapping the bottom of the barrel if this is best they can offer
guardian.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# bipod 2012-06-25 13:34
There is absolutely no point in commenting on the BBC article. The entire section is full of comments like these:

"The trouble is that Scottish politics is so riven with the unreasoning hatred of the English for things that happened hundreds of years back that no sensible dialogue will ever occur."

All reasonable comments are drowned out and voted down by spiteful unionists.
 
 
# X_Sticks 2012-06-25 13:51
They're (the establishment) trying to make out the pro independence supporters are racists. More smear from the unionists.
 
 
# call me dave 2012-06-25 14:02
Yes! a depressing view of what is in front of us all. Much missionary work to be done to convince the uneducated 'msm lobby readers' that there are many myths and lies which distract them from being able to make a proper judgement.

Thankfully most are from down south and wont be voting.

I had enough after getting to page 18 in the BBC comments. I have rated a few though, but my blood pressure needs to be kept steady.

Still waiting for ONE reason from the new all party Scottish coalition for staying in the union.
 
 
# Caadfael 2012-06-25 14:45
Welcome Tarbat
A goodly number of folk have moved up from down south, and made good lives for themselves and their families, with many more either wishng they could or wanting SNP-style governance of their areas.
Prof Alex Woolfe of St.A uni and my own MSP, Nigel Don are 2 prime examples .. Andy Robinson is to be congratulated for his sterling work on the rugby southern tour! Definitely an honorary "Jockdom" for him! :-)
OOPS! Alex Woolfe!
 
 
# tarbat 2012-06-25 15:02
Thanks for the welcome Caadfael. As a life-long LibDem voter before moving to Scotland, I found that only the SNP offered the policies I want. It makes me laugh when the NO campaign seem to forget that many Scots are English immigrants!!
 
 
# xyz 2012-06-25 15:09
The 30 minute rule is now a 15 minute rule.

.. However this comments system does not really encourage replies and follow ups, as once a comment has been made, the article can fairly quickly disappear into the bowels of NNS articles never to be found again.

There is no way to follow comments over an extended period, no email prompt that .. 'someone has commented on a discussion you are following'

Tarbat may never read your welcome

I've taken to creating a bookmark for articles I comment on and then checking periodically to see if anyone has added to the comments. .. but it's so archaic, and cumbersome that many replies are missed.

Furthermore there are many great comments here that deserve some recognition with a 'vote' or a 'like'
 
 
# KOF 2012-06-25 15:22
Just noticed the firm doing the media strategy for the No Campaign are a company called Blue State Digital. Which appears to be have bought, in 2010, by a company called WPP plc.
"The company is well known for going to great lengths to lower its own corporate tax bill, paying only 1.6% of total revenue in taxes in 2010", according to Wikipedia.
That sort of information could be very embarressing to the Better Together Campaign, considering the recent hoo-haa over tax and "the rich".
 
 
# J Wil 2012-06-25 15:40
Well sussed out. It is revealing to lift the stones and look under them to find out just what the low life looks like.

BBC Scotland do this at times, but only for their pet projects.

The 15 minute rule. I noticed too that the Herald seems to have lifted its five articles in a month limit.
 
 
# Legerwood 2012-06-25 15:31
Gary Gibbons, political correspondent for Channel 4 News, has a blog on the NO campaign's launch. He has a few cutting remarks to make about it AND you can comment.

blogs.channel4.com/.../19947
 
 
# Thee Forsaken One 2012-06-25 15:38
The last line is brilliant. Reading it at work forced me to restrain my sniggering.
 
 
# Legerwood 2012-06-25 18:54
It is indeed a cutting comment and may be a dig at a certain former Labour Cabinet Minister who flipped houses with gay abandon.

I have just watched Gary Gibbon's interview with Alastair Darling on the CH4 News. He really put Darling on the spot by asking him about who was financing the No campaign and asking again when he was less than happy with the non-answer he got. Mr Darling was clearly not happy about being pushed on this point. Not the sort of treatment he is used to from our home-grown, supine political journalists up here.
 
 
# westender 2012-06-25 16:14
I was amazed the No campaign did not feature in the headlines of the BBC one o'clock news.There was still no mention at 1.15pm as I left the house with the programme discussing Italy v England.
 
 
# Ready to Start 2012-06-25 16:15
Who is funding the NO Scotland campaign? We need to be told as I suspect most of the money is coming from South of the Border.

Alistair Darling was divorced by his former wife and has prospered ever since. Was he better together or is he happier now?
 
 
# From The Suburbs 2012-06-25 16:33
On Radio Scotland Denis Canavan has just said that Alistair Darling was campaigning on the NO side in the 1979 Devolution Referendum Campaign.

Has anyone got background on this?

At the time the Ex Loretto toff had just joined the Labour Party from the International Marxist Group and presumably didn't believe in nationhood.

Now he doesn't want to lose his impending Knighthood from a grateful Tory Government..
 
 
# J Wil 2012-06-25 17:01
"...Denis Canavan has just said that Alistair Darling was campaigning on the NO side in the 1979 Devolution Referendum Campaign."

...and Darling is saying devolution was Labours gift to Scotland when we know that they were pushed into it. It was the last thing they wanted because the knew it was the slippery slope to independence.
 
 
# mato21 2012-06-25 17:11
J Wil

You are correct. They were less than keen A wee reminder from the time

www.economist.com/node/147162
 
 
# Old Smokey 2012-06-25 17:32
What a telling article from 1997 and what that should be reminded to everyone. In that Labour were only paying lip service to devolution.
The telling bit for me was 'Blair insisted that he had merely been stating the obvious. If an English parish council could raise tax locally, why not a Scottish parliament? And of course Westminster could take back any powers it devolved. But this was to dodge the import, and symbolism, of his own comments. His reference to a parish council seemed to highlight just how paltry the Edinburgh parliament’s powers to vary tax rates will really be1
and
'Blair’s demand that Labour’s contingent in any Scottish parliament toe the national party’s line on tax also seems to misunderstand how the Edinburgh parliament is supposed to operate'
Which is exactly what Labour in Holyrood under Dewer did, they toed the party line , not just on tax but everything else!
 
 
# Edzell Blue 2012-06-25 16:49
Better together?
Some time ago someone posted on this site that the health bill for England that was going through westminster meant that if people from Scotland (or Wales and Northern Ireland) were visiting England and had to get emergency medical treatment then they would be charged for it. Was this actually included in the final bill?
 
 
# rob4i 2012-06-25 16:59
Unionist Parties and individual Unionist MP's pretend to believe that Westminster in London, England is most suited to govern Scotland in their own best intersest, WHO ARE THEY TRYING TO FOOL......the Scottish electorate of course, because its all about their own self interest to keep themselves best placed for the Westminster gravytrain!!

Unionists in Scotland are a total disgrace and The Scottish electorate should RID themselves of those greedy self-servers once and for all!!
 
 
# ituna semea 2012-06-25 17:36
Nationalist Parties and Nationalist MPs and MSPs pretend to believe that Edinburgh Scotland is most suited to govern Orkney and Shetland etc ,etc, etc., there are no Nationalist Constituency MPs or MSPs in either.
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-06-25 18:30
Hoping for a new Northern Ireland are we ituna? The unionists thrive on division.

How'd the Tories do in those islands of Scottish-Norwegian Heritage? Labour too for that matter? I believe combined they got less vote share than the SNP in both orkney and Shetland.

So lets see, Scottish islands with a decent dose of nordic heritage who voted for devolution in 1997 and want control of oil and gas devolved to holyrood wish to be ruled by England and parties which command at best 14% of the vote. This has been the implication of many unionists.

Now I would not like to speak for the good residents of the isles, but I wouldn't give up any chance of an oil fund for Tory rule and just 12 miles of foreshore if I were a liberal (which I am, but a real one without blue underpants)...

Tavish lost 19% of his vote share in 2011 and at that point we were all still wondering exactly how Tory the Lib Dems were. Now that we've established that well, I would not want to be Tavish at the next Scottish GE.
 
 
# CharlieObrien 2012-06-25 17:48
Charles Patrick O'Brien
I hope I can word this better,than I did before.
IF SCOTLAND WERE AN ALREADY INDEPENDENT COUNTRY WOULD ALISTAIR DARLING VOTE TO JOIN THE UNION? I think that is closer to the way I read it a wee while ago.
 
 
# Bonx 2012-06-25 17:51
So the game is on!

Walked out of Queen Street station this morning to be handed 'Just one reason we are better together' .... 'Scottish Banks were bailed out with £470 billion from UK taxpayers'.

Intersting read.

I think we should counter these statements on this site...
How about, have a copy of the handouts, and then answer fully the statements made, then allow us all to post on Facebook etc, the counter argument, and leave the SNP to fight the positive argument.

Its seems fairly straightforward , The use of 'Scottish Banks' and 'UK Taxpayers'...we shoudl beable to answer that right away...wasnt US money, Dutch moeny also used...it needs explaining to people.
 
 
# pmcrek 2012-06-25 19:12
1) An Independence Scotland would have no legal/moral reason to bail out non Scottish businesses and taxpayers for the failure of a private company. As it turned out we (that is the UK including Scots taxpayers) bailed out English councils who had invested millions in Icelandic banks after their failure. As such our share of the debt burden for the financial crisis is much higher than if we were independent at the time.

We could very innacurately estimate such a theoretical bailout to have cost (8-9% of the total) around £40 billion to an independent Scotland.

2) Financial regulation and the enforcement of financial regulation is not a devolved matter. The environment for the financial crisis to happen only existed because of long term UK policy of deregulation and failures of the UK financial authority to regulate the industry.

In other words if we were independent we might not of had a financial crisis at all. Who knows? Its as relevant as asking how Switzerland could have weathered the Japanese tsunami.
 
 
# peter,aberdeenshire 2012-06-25 19:01
Security

In an uncertain world Scotland's security will be strengthened as part of the United Kingdom. The British Armed Forces that protect us are the best in the world. In Scotland we are proud of the Forces and proud of the vital contribution that Scotland makes to them. As part of the UK we have real clout in the UN Security Council, NATO, the EU, and we have Embassies around the world.
Interdependence

As Scots we believe there's nowhere better, but we understand there's something bigger. By contributing to and benefiting from the multi-national, multi-ethnic and multi-cultural United Kingdom of the years ahead, Scotland's society and culture will be enriched.
Utter garbage and dont you just love how the unionists spout the as Scots or true Scots crap as if those supporting independence are not.
 
 
# J Wil 2012-06-25 21:01
Someone needs to keep reminding Darling of his part in the downfall of the UK banks and that the world financial disaster was a side issue.

He has also been under attack more recently for his handling of Northern Rock. The Chickens are coming home to roost

Darling.http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/business/sants-blames-alistair-darling-for-northern-rock-failure-1-2352611
 
 
# Red Squirrel 2012-06-25 21:13
Dear Darling...thank you so much for helping me to see that you are completely right, you are better together...and preferably a long way away from the rest of us.

Tartan? Braveheart? Can I tactfully suggest that this is perhaps a cliche too far without a national prescription of an anti-emetic? I understand that you were looking for the people of Scotland to speak but maybe a bit more rehearsal and dare I suggest a more targeted recruitment campaign? My toes have curled so much I'll probably need surgery.

Scottish NHS? You are of course right again, thanks to the excellent work of your Labour government, followed by the fabulously amusing and "u-turning as a new Olympic sport" ConDems, we no longer have a National Health Service but distinctly diverging health models where Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland have for some reason failed to woo large private health providers, believing oddly that the NHS is there for patients, not profit.

Well done, nothing could help independence more than demonstrating what there is to lose by remaining tied to a Westminster elite with no mandate to govern and little interest in Scotland beyond the resources that can be exploited.

On the plus side, I think you've helped us all to decide on what to do with Trident.

I'll make sure I tune in for the next episode. I can always get splints for the toes.

Keep up the good work.
 
 
# Fungus 2012-06-25 21:30
"buying a one-way ticket to send our children to a deeply uncertain destination"

Well let's have a look where the British State has taken us. 1707 union pushed through against the will of the Scottish people using bribery, lies and threats of violence. 1600's...holding a faith contrary to that proscribed by the British establishment means arrest, torture and death, 18th and 19th centuries the Fuadach Nan Gaidheal...ethnic cleansing where wearing the clothes of your culture or speaking the language could lead to a death sentence. 1980's...Thatcher, 1990's our sons and daughters being slaughtered in illegal wars fought for the benefit of oil companies.

Surely any destination controlled by the Scottish people for the Scottish people must be better than that.
 

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