Banner

General

By a Newsnet reporter
 
The Scottish Labour party are reported to be resisting moves to force ‘headbutt’ MP Eric Joyce to resign as the MP for Falkirk. 

If Mr Joyce were to stand down it would force a by-election in his Falkirk constituency, a move that would focus attention on the performance of the new Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont.

Mr Joyce has gone into hiding after he was charged with three counts of common assault following claims he went berserk in a House of Commons bar.

There has been mounting speculation that the controversial Labour MP will step down after several unnamed Labour party figures said they were concerned for Mr Joyce’s health.

However this morning reports in one Scottish newspaper suggest that Labour figures in Scotland want Mr Joyce to remain MP for Falkirk. 

The Daily Record describes a “worried” Scottish Labour party not wanting to risk a by-election.  According to the paper one Labour source has said “They really would rather have a nutter in that seat than a Nat.”

Joyce was suspended from the party by Labour leader Ed Miliband hours after he was alleged to have head-butted a political opponent.  Eyewitness reports described how the Scottish Labour MP had to be sat on by five police officers after several people were alleged to have been assaulted.

Mr Miliband’s prompt action contrasted sharply with the silence from Scottish leader Johann Lamont who has thus far failed to make any public statement and is facing growing criticism over her failure to condemn the Falkirk MP.

Yesterday Westminster MP Harriet Harman claimed it was not important who took action against Mr Joyce.  However Ms Lamont was heralded into her new role with apparent ‘beefed up powers’ that was supposed to signify the autonomy of Scottish Labour.

Johann Lamont replaced Iain Gray as leader of the Labour group in December and was widely reported to have been given wide ranging new powers that included authority over all Scottish Labour politicians.

However a number of incidents including claims of bullying and threats at Glasgow Council and the incident that led to the arrest of Mr Joyce have witnessed total silence from Ms Lamont.

Labour party activists in Falkirk are known to have been unhappy with Eric Joyce and have tried to have him deselected before.

According to the Record, a senior Labour MP said: “Eric Joyce’s political career is over.  Whatever the outcome of the court case, he is now a political pariah.

“People in the country may think it’s just an escapade but what happened was an outrage to Parliament.

“Many of us are amazed that he has never been deselected by his own constituency or taken off the candidates’ list by the party.

“It’s been a complete mystery why he has survived this long.”

Eric Joyce’s predecessor, former Labour MP and MSP Dennis Canavan, has already attacked Labour over its selection processes.

Commenting after Joyce had been arrested and charged he said: “If he is found guilty of serious assault, then I hope the parliamentary authorities take action against him to suspend him from the House of Commons.
 
“I am saddened but not very surprised to hear about this latest incident.  Sadly, it says as much about the quality of the Labour Party’s selection process for candidates as it does about Mr Joyce.
 
“He is not a fit and proper person to be an MP.  My sympathies lie with the people of Falkirk, not with Mr Joyce.  This all speaks volumes about the way the Labour Party goes about selecting its candidates.”

This is the second time in two years that the Labour MP has spent the evening in police cells.  In November 2010, Mr Joyce spent the night in police custody after being arrested on suspicion of driving while under the influence of alcohol.  Mr Joyce refused to provide a breath-test.  He later pled guilty to guilty to failing to provide a sample without reasonable excuse.  

Sheriff William Gallacher banned the MP from driving for one year and fined him £400.  Sheriff Gallacher told Mr Joyce:  "You brought this situation on yourself." 

The controversial MP also made the headlines as a result of his expense claims.  In 2011 it emerged that Joyce had claimed a staggering £200,000 in expenses for the previous year, which included over £46,000 in travel costs.

The former Army major also prompted outrage in 2010 when he likened middle-class voters to paedophiles, drunks and liars in a rant on a left-wing website.

In the last general election he achieved a win over the SNP with a majority of 7843 - 23,207 votes to 15,364.

Joyce’s fall from grace is sadly ironic given a statement he made in the House of Commons in 2004 when he said:

“It is also important to say that the drug of choice of most older adults, probably most of us here, is alcohol.  The abuse of alcohol creates far more trouble in our high streets and our homes than does the use of khat or cannabis.  If we think about the things that take up police time, alcohol abuse takes up far more police time and leads to far more offences than khat or cannabis.  The latter tend to keep people relatively quiet.

“… we want to direct the police to the more serious offences.  I am thinking about the kind of thing that I see when I walk about my constituency on a Friday or Saturday evening downtown.  It is alcohol that causes most of those offences.  I am thinking not only about the abuse of alcohol but about the offences that lead on from it.”

Comments  

 
# clootie 2012-02-25 10:10
I would like to see a by-election but I very much doubt it will happen. The quotes from "the man in the street" cannot be used by Labour or their media wing the BBC if you have an actual vote to reflect current opinion.

Not wishing to have a by-election is quite informative though.
 
 
# dogcollar 2012-02-25 10:12
An individual who was selected because of his unionist credentials rather than his intelligence. This man milked the system when it was thought that Blair was untouchable and a Labour seat was a comfy way of earning plenty cash for not much work. As soon as Labour are in opposition the harder they have to work more but most cannot handle it and wither on the vine like Joyce.
 
 
# Ard Righ 2012-02-26 11:00
"An individual who was selected because of his unionist credentials rather than his intelligence."

I though that was the prerequisite.
 
 
# Old Smokey 2012-02-25 10:13
Labour will simply weather it out, with of course the help of the media, especially the BBC, who will quietly airbrush it all out in the hope we just walk on and forget all about it.
Labour will have their work cut out with the local elections in May, so to have a by election on top of that is , for Labour a non starter.

If Labour had any decency and respect for the constituenst of Falkirk, they would call it a day and have Eric Joyce step down, not juts for the good of the people of Falkirk but also for the health of Eric Joyce.
Keeping Eric Joyce as MP is frankly idiotic as he is not currently capable of performing his duties as an MP
 
 
# Stakhanov 2012-02-25 10:22
Maybe Dennis Canavan would be persuaded to stand as an SNP candidate...
 
 
# Keep UTG 2012-02-25 10:15
The "Silence of the Lams" speaks volumes about the mindset of "Scottish" Labour.

We really don`t need a comment from her,inaction speaks louder.
 
 
# GuidedByPollard 2012-02-25 10:16
If this was an SNP MP involved in this sort of nonsense you can bet your life Labour and the MSM would be screaming for a by-election

Can NNS not attach the Labour logo to stories like this instead of that pic?
 
 
# C2DEalba 2012-02-25 20:47
Yes, Labour logo would be appreciated as to borrow a phrase from another poster "darkened room" is potentially required upon sight of article using the current picture.
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 21:18
C'mon in. It's "party-time" :D
 
 
# C2DEalba 2012-02-26 00:54
Yes, perhaps admission should be charged :)
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-26 01:02
With the number of members we could make a small fortune!

Mind you we don't believe in "ripping off" the members. Friendship and fellowship is more important than financial gain.
 
 
# C2DEalba 2012-02-26 01:20
How true. Forgive my money making.

This site is great. I have learned so much, my political knowledge increases daily and I have started posting more!

I am grateful for all the people who post and willing to share their knowledge, insight and experience.
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-26 01:31
Hey don't worry about your money making ideas, keep them coming. :D

We are all in this together, now who was it that said that again?

We were all novices at this at some point but at the same time we are all willing to help others. No doubt in time you will be helping us or other newbies in the future.
Keep the wisdom coming! :D
 
 
# C2DEalba 2012-02-26 02:15
I recommend this site to all my friends. I think I read somewhere that women are less likely to support indy so this burd has got all her pals reading this site and most supporting indy.

Thank you
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-26 02:17
Congratulations C2. :D

Keep up the good work!
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-02-25 10:22
I have little doubt, based on poll data, that Labour would lose this seat to the SNP in the event of a by-election.

Such a result would of course not have any real impact in terms of Scot's Westminster MP make-up, but it would deal a further credibility blow for Labour, showing that even at Westminster level, they can no longer rely on obtaining a 'feeble 41' with little effort.

EDIT. I'm waiting for a few more subsets at the mo, but looking like this for GE intention conservatively:

SNP = 42-50%
Lab = 26-33%
Con = 13-16%
Lib = 5-7%
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 10:32
Labour don't want to hold a by-election in Falkirk for one reason, they are terrified of getting their ass well and truly kicked into the middle of the next century by the SNP when the SNP win!

Quote:
Mr Miliband’s prompt action contrasted sharply with the silence from Scottish leader Johann Lamont who has thus far failed to make any public statement and is facing growing criticism over her failure to condemn the Falkirk MP.



The lamentable Lamont has not said anything because of one simple fact.....she has not been told what to say! Labour trumpeted the election of Lamont as their "new" YAWN! Scottish leader. She would have power over all Scottish M.P.'s and M.S.P.'s. YEAH RIGHT! Pull the other one it's got bells on!

The only reason Lamont won the Labour leadership in Scotland was because she was the only one who would do London's begging without question or raising hell. London Labour needed someone in place as Scottish leader. However, they could not afford to have someone who would actually do what it says on the tin, they needed someone who would give London Labour a "face" but do absolutely nothing without their say so, the result is Labour end up with the lamentable Lamont as their speechless, faceless wonder!

Quote:
However a number of incidents including claims of bullying and threats at Glasgow Council and the incident that led to the arrest of Mr Joyce have witnessed total silence from Ms Lamont.



There are two words that best describe Scottish Labour and their totally inept leadership's behaviour since their election last year, Blind Panic!
 
 
# Dougie Douglas 2012-02-25 10:35
“I am saddened but not very surprised to hear about this latest incident. Sadly, it says as much about the quality of the Labour Party’s selection process for candidates as it does about Mr Joyce.

“He is not a fit and proper person to be an MP. My sympathies lie with the people of Falkirk, not with Mr Joyce. This all speaks volumes about the way the Labour Party goes about selecting its candidates.”
Eric Joyce’s predecessor, former Labour MP and MSP Dennis Canavan


Nuff said
 
 
# Saltire Groppenslosh 2012-02-25 10:40
Skier, I think that if the seat comes up for by-election you are absolutely right and there would be no real impact on Westminster.

What could be done though is for SNP to refuse to contest the seat because whoever was put in if SNP won it wouldn't have a full term as a sitting MP due to possible independence.

In other words we show our lack of interest in having any more voices in Westminster because the house doesn't listen to Scottish concerns anyway.
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 10:52
I take your point S.G. but with an SNP win, as there surely would be, would that not be yet another nail in the coffin containing the remains of the Labour party in Scotland.
 
 
# C2DEalba 2012-02-25 20:51
If there was a by election and I am sure Labour would not risk it, the SNP must field a candidate for the benefit of Falirk people who may need assistance from an MP and to give the party the necessary public relations spin off.

The SNP must show they respect the people of Falkirk by acting in the manner of a socially democractic party that cares about the people.
 
 
# rhymer 2012-02-25 10:43
Will any journalist ask Lamont for a comment on this ?
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 10:49
Not any unionist journalist rhymer, and definitely not any EBC journalist.

Note:

I use the term journalist in the loosest possible way when making any sort of reference to the British Brainwashing Corporation!
 
 
# Vincent McDee 2012-02-25 10:44
It's very simple really, so much so that even a labour mp can verbalize it:

"Nuts or Nats"

Your choice.
 
 
# nchanter 2012-02-25 11:02
Do all these shenanegans not show that we the people can do nothing with the present system of politics. The governments act in their corrupt ways with impunity, the dogs in the street knows this. My hope is that come independence all this will change.
 
 
# Holebender 2012-02-25 11:08
If Eric Joyce has been suspended from the Labour Party how can Labour force him to resign? This byelection is none of Labour's business because the sitting MP is no longer a Labour member, allegedly.
 
 
# jafurn 2012-02-25 11:19
Not good enough for the labour whip but good enough for his constituents.
 
 
# scottish_skier 2012-02-25 11:30
This is perfectly normal for the Labour party. In the 1979 referendum, based on Labour party rules for the ballot, numerous dead people were counted as voting 'no'. One imagines even if a Labour MP passed away, they'd try to argue he/she was still there 'in spirit' so no need for them to stand down.
 
 
# Exile 2012-02-25 11:52
Aye, and since then they've further refined the art of dead people having a vote, as long as they vote Labour. It's called postal voting.
 
 
# Bobelix 2012-02-25 13:03
Does anyone have a (hopefully, online) source for the "dead voters" claim in both '79 and later? If substantiated, it'd make a pretty good club to beat Labour with.
 
 
# Islegard 2012-02-25 13:10
At every election Labour use dead people and rig the postal votes. Can't anything be done to stop it? Especially with the council elections and the referendum in the future.
 
 
# jafurn 2012-02-25 14:13
I was having a quick googlesearch for "dead voters" and instead I found this wee site which I don't think I have never seen before. There are loads of interesting articles there.

www.oilofscotland.org/.../
 
 
# Bobelix 2012-02-25 14:22
All I've been able to find that is substantiated is this: parliament.uk/.../...
It lists quite a number of irregularities, most relating to postal votes, and calls for reform of the postal vote system. However, none of the cases cited occur in Scotland, although some relate to Labour fraud, most are to do with manipulation of the Conservative vote - mainly in the Midlands - by "Mr Big"s in the Asian community relying, to some extent, on a controlled extended family set-up where a paterfamiliasin the pay of a "Mr Big" would tell all the adults in his family how to complete their postal votes. All in all, it doesn't seem very useful, except in a general way, as a tool with which to attack Labour in Scotland.
 
 
# EdinScot 2012-02-25 11:28
However this morning reports in one Scottish newspaper suggest that Labour figures in Scotland want Mr Joyce to remain MP for Falkirk
Its the Labour party first last and always and to heck with the constituents who they're meant to serve. It took Labour over half a year to have their 'Scottish' review of the party to install yet another London puppet in the shape of Lamont whose silence from weapons of mass destruction, the fabricated rape story, Glasgow City Council Labour imploding and now Eric Joyce unfit for office to make a statement. What a democratic outrage she and her party are.

I really hope there will be a by election so that the people of Falkirk can give them their answer and leave them in doubt what they think. No wonder they got tanked last May. The Labour party need booted right out of Scotland. The Labour party are bricking it with an independence referendum looming. They are on life support only because of their propaganda media wing of the EBC. What a shambles in a 21st century western nation.
 
 
# alicmurray 2012-02-25 11:41
Mr Joyce along with Brown will be the second Scottish Labour MP to go to ground.

Sincere apologies alicmurray, not sure what has gone wrong but your message has been passed on. NNS Mod Team
 
 
# Exile 2012-02-25 11:55
Yeah, I was once put into premod because I wrote what I thought of certain Unionist politicians. I wrote via the Contact Us page to ask about this and got a response immediately to my email. Perhaps they're overloaded at the moment.
 
 
# alicmurray 2012-02-25 12:26
Mod team - thank you.
 
 
# edinburgh quine 2012-02-25 11:49
So this was the pathetic apology for a man that was put in the place of Dennis Canavan? I never understood why Mr Canavan was deselected as he appeared to be a decent individual, more interested in his constituents than his own concerns. And this is what labour thought would be an improvement.

I'm guessing Malcolm Chisholm's coat must be on a shoogly peg as well, given that he too appears to be a decent man. Are there any more that can be added to this list?
 
 
# Juteman 2012-02-25 11:58
I never understood why Mr Canavan was deselected as he appeared to be a decent individual, more interested in his constituents than his own concerns

That was why he was deselected.
 
 
# GuidedByPollard 2012-02-25 11:59
Quoting edinburgh quine:
So this was the pathetic apology for a man that was put in the place of Dennis Canavan? I never understood why Mr Canavan was deselected as he appeared to be a decent individual, more interested in his constituents than his own concerns. And this is what labour thought would be an improvement.

I'm guessing Malcolm Chisholm's coat must be on a shoogly peg as well, given that he too appears to be a decent man. Are there any more that can be added to this list?

The talk at the time was Dennis Canavan was deselected as he was 'old Labour' rather than New Labour/Blairite...if he'd stood as an Independant candidate he would have retained the seat...not sure why he didn't do that
 
 
# shackled to a corpse 2012-02-25 12:21
Quote:
if he'd stood as an Independant candidate he would have retained the seat...not sure why he didn't do that

He wasn't deselected for his Westminster seat. Canavan wanted to be the Labour Party candidate for the new Scottish Parliament and wasn't selected so he stood as an independent and resigned his Westminster seat. Thats when Joyce was selected. Canavan then won the SP constituency seat easily as an independent and held it until he retired from politics following a series of personal tragedies.
 
 
# Jenny2603 2012-02-25 14:55
Yes the Labour Party at the time seemed to take the frankly ludicrous view that Canavan wasn't good enough for the Scottish Parliament but was OK for Westminster. In truth he was too good for the Labour Party as his success as an independent amply demonstrated. That he was replaced by Joyce is a worrying reflection of the poor quality candidates Labour have to choose from. Sad for a party that at one time in Scotland could have been said to be spoiled for choice.
 
 
# proudscot 2012-02-25 11:58
Surely some Labour sympathising reporter, such as Gardham or Crichton of the DR, or Campbell or Buchanan of the Pathetic Quay lot, could approach Lamont for a quote. They could advise her that her continuing silence on events such as this, or the GCC shenanigans, or the recent Stirling Council budget fiasco, are making her appear inept, incompetent, and ... oh, erm, wait ... too late!!
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 12:12
They can't do that proudscot, they are the mouthpiece of Labour. We can't have the mouthpiece of Labour asking pertinent questions of the "face" of Labour in Scotland. They might actually ask a useful question like "why are you leader" or "when are you going to stand up and do something about the rot that is at the centre of Labour in Scotland?"

The last thing that Labour want is the mouthpiece of Labour embarrassing the "face" of Labour!
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-25 12:05
Can a party force an MP to stand down? Even if he wasn't suspended, he's still elected as an individual, whichever party he represents.
 
 
# UpSpake 2012-02-25 12:07
The Labour Party is no place for honorable people. Party first and last. The people = nowhere.
 
 
# Legerwood 2012-02-25 12:07
According to reports in the newspapers Mr Joyce can continue to serve as an MP even if charged, convicted and put in jail so long as any custodial sentence is not more than 1 year.

Similarly I suppose with Mr Huhne LibDem MP.
 
 
# Juteman 2012-02-25 12:12
Quoting Legerwood:
Similarly I suppose with Mr Huhne LibDem MP.

Has Huhne had the whip withdrawn?
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 12:20
I don't think so, not yet anyway. Still it's early days on that one!
 
 
# Saltire Groppenslosh 2012-02-25 12:23
Lamont is quietly presiding over the death of the Labour Party in Scotland.

There's very little that she can do or say that wil avert that. So she says nothing at all. The weekly First Ministers Questions must be like torture to her as she is the mouthpiece of a party that has lost its way and all she can do is wildly attack everything that the SNP stand for which is a hollow stance for a party in opposition.

The labour party in Scotland rely heavily on "sleepwalking" support, people that sleepwalk to the polling stations to search out and cross the box that's got labour next to it and then go back to sleep for another four or five years.

Lamont isn't a strong enough leader to bring all the factions within her party together. She will not oppose her head office and it is this that the membership will eventually wake up to and rebel against.

Oh dear, what a shame, never mind.

Back on with the real business now.....
 
 
# Juteman 2012-02-25 12:29
The fact that the SNP government is such a broad church, must cause so many problems to partys with narrow political views.
How can a so called Left wing party attack policies that are more left wing than their own?
The same applies to the Labour party.;)
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 12:33
When Elmer Fudd was in charge of the Labour group in Holyrood I used to find FMQ's very funny and looked forward to the Elmer Fudd put down show every week. Since his demise, politically speaking, I have found FMQ's to be so sad. I still look forward to FMQ's just to the lamentable Lamont ask her ridiculous, stupid and puerile little questions. A.S. still has the class to put her down, as he did her predecessor, with class and style!

The most worrying aspect about FMQ's though, picked up by various others on this site, is the total and absolute lack of any acceptable opposition to the SNP.

At least when Auntie Bella was leader of the Tories you were regularly shown a good little sequence of banter between her and A.S., we don't even get that any more!
 
 
# Juteman 2012-02-25 12:41
Maybe they simply know that the game is up the pole?
If you have a shred of integrity and intelligence, how can you defend the indefensible?
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 12:57
That's the problem Juteman, they don't have any integrity or intelligence!
 
 
# mato21 2012-02-25 12:45
Arby

I never thought we would say that we were missing I.Gray but here we are in less than a year mourning his passing
(figuratively speaking)
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 12:50
As they always say," you never know what a good thing you have until it is gone!" :D
 
 
# GrassyKnollington 2012-02-25 12:43
I've noticed recently that the unionist cheerleaders like Severin Carrell have been reduced to favourably quoting Willie Rennie when they need an anti SNP soundbite.

It's ironic that Johann Lamont despite being touted as having more authority in the Labour hierarchy ( no evidence admittedly ) than her predecessors, actually behaves like someone with a lot less.

I joked yesterday that Jim Murphy had written her formalised new responsibilitie s on rice paper and then ordered her to eat it as the contents were so top secret.

The idea that Johann Lamont could take decisive action against Eric Joyce or any Westminster MP simply does not compute.

In the absence of any meaningful interventions from Lamont it's amusing to see all the Labour journos looking up to Willie Rennie for leadership and usable soundbites like the wee Aliens from Toy Story, "you have saved or lives, we are eternally grateful...."
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 12:52
Quote:
I've noticed recently that the unionist cheerleaders like Severin Carrell have been reduced to favourably quoting Willie Rennie when they need an anti SNP soundbite.



G.K. I didn't know he had anything useful to say! :D
 
 
# Juteman 2012-02-25 12:53
Every time i see Johann Lamont in action, i cant help thinking of Ronald Villiers from chewing the fat.
www.youtube.com/.../
 
 
# Roll_On_2011 2012-02-25 12:59
From the following article it appears that the aggressive nature of Eric Joyce pre-dates his becoming an MP.

scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/.../...

Mr Joyce grew up in Perth. As a 15-year-old, he was fined in court and expelled from Perth Academy after wrestling a female teacher out of a classroom. Charges were laid because, the court was told, it was the second time he had intimidated a young woman teacher.

Then, say former pupils and staff, he wrenched the teacher’s arm up her back and flung her out of class. She was four months pregnant.
 
 
# admiral 2012-02-25 13:16
Quoting Roll_On_2011:
From the following article it appears that the aggressive nature of Eric Joyce pre-dates his becoming an MP.

scottish*******express.co.uk/.../...

Mr Joyce grew up in Perth. As a 15-year-old, he was fined in court and expelled from Perth Academy after wrestling a female teacher out of a classroom. Charges were laid because, the court was told, it was the second time he had intimidated a young woman teacher.

Then, say former pupils and staff, he wrenched the teacher’s arm up her back and flung her out of class. She was four months pregnant.


How interesting that Labour consider such a person fit and proper to be an MP!

But then, there has been no condemnation of Ian Davidson's threatening behaviour towards a fellow MP, so one must suppose that they consider this to be normal and acceptable in a civilised society.

Come on, Johann, tell us what you think!
 
 
# Robabody 2012-02-25 20:33
What? And this oik became an MP? This from the express, is reported as true?
 
 
# Mad Jock McMad 2012-02-25 13:01
Mr Joyce has the right to take the Chiltern 100's with out any by your leave from his party.

defamatory comment removed. – NNS Mod Team
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 13:05
Quote:
Mr Joyce has the right to take the Chiltern 100's with out any by your leave from his party.



That would be the honourable approach to his current predicament MJM. However, as we have all been finding out over the past few days it would appear that "honour" is not exactly at the top of his list of credentials.
 
 
# Islegard 2012-02-25 13:14
Silence from Lament Harman speaking on her behalf. This is the same tactic they took with Brown. Made sure they are seen speaking as little as possible it only makes things worse for themselves.
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 13:32
Keep stumm at all costs. Don't say a word and it will all blow away over night.

Well at least that is the Labour approach to scandals!
 
 
# Dundonian West 2012-02-25 13:17
GrassyKnollingt on quote."The idea that Johann Lamont could take decisive action against Eric Joyce or any Westminster MP simply does not compute."

YES.She's somebody's dogsbody.

Unionist Labour will NOT EVER cross that line in the sand---either within the Party structure OR to the People in Scotland.
Scottish New Labour has an inbuilt limitator beyond which they cannot go,without blowing a fuse.
It's in the genes----they cannot think,or act,outside the box of limited devolution.
A shame really,for a party that was once an inspiration to Scotland's Left.
 
 
# Mad Jock McMad 2012-02-25 13:21
Labour's Scottish Region increasingly looks like the failed crooks in the Italian Job - 'We're the self preservation soceity'.
 
 
# tartanfever 2012-02-25 13:35
I think we have a developing pattern with lamont thats been adopted by the labour party.

They wheel her out for FMQ's when she will present herself as the 'mother/woman/family' figure.

She then disappears until next week's FMQ's where she appears again. The 7 days in between we here very little, if nothing, from her.

She does not get involved in scandals, thats left to others in the party, or in this case to westminster labour to deal with and make statements on. This scenario is backed up by the safety net of the MSM, especially the BBC, who will not pursue her for a comment. and their non-reporting of the story will allow the issue to melt away.

As I have mentioned previously (and many others here) she does not have to name any policies as her role is to maintain a concerted attack on independence- the media will never ask her about policy as has been demonstrated since she took office.

All of her speeches are full of the usual rhetoric, angled from the 'motherly' perspective 'I want to look after the people of Scotland/ I want to see them with a prosperous future' and so on. This is her role in the labour party, no more, no less.

She is being protected from the rigours of everyday politics by her party, with the help of BBC Scotland, so that her name will hopefully not be tarnished.
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 13:40
The thing is though tartan, the very fact that she has not come out to make her views known on a whole host of Labour bombshells over recent weeks she is increasingly being seen as a very incompetent leader.

The old adage of "Silence is Golden" does not work in the present situation with Labour, and someone inside Labour must surely realise this!
 
 
# tartanfever 2012-02-25 13:47
I know what you mean arb, and it's plain to see that for those of the population that gather their news from sources outside the MSM that her lack of voice shows that she is not a leader.

However, we are in the minority. Most people in Scotland still rely on say the BBC or STV and most likely the Daily Record for their news consumption. If that audience does not associate lamont with anything negative, the labour party will see that as a positive.
 
 
# Dundonian West 2012-02-25 13:36
Quoting Mad Jock McMad:
Labour's Scottish Region increasingly looks like the failed crooks in the Italian Job - 'We're the self preservation soceity'.


With a Username like your's,I wouldn't like to meet you down a dark pend on a Saturday night.!!! Joke.

Brings some relief to a serious newsnetscotland news item.
 
 
# Juteman 2012-02-25 13:58
O/T.
My daughter will finish Uni next year, and her medical qualification will be UK registered. She told me recently that fellow students are worried that a Scottish degree won't automaticaly lead to membership of the UK associated council.(in an independant Scotland) This is needed to seek employment.
If intelligent folk are getting confused by this, and possibly affecting how they vote, maybe a statement is needed from the government?
I know it's obvious, but students are thick, no matter how clever they are.
 
 
# Dundonian West 2012-02-25 14:38
Quoting Juteman:
O/T.
My daughter will finish Uni next year, and her medical qualification will be UK registered. She told me recently that fellow students are worried that a Scottish degree won't automaticaly lead to membership of the UK associated council.(in an independant Scotland) This is needed to seek employment.
If intelligent folk are getting confused by this, and possibly affecting how they vote, maybe a statement is needed from the government?
I know it's obvious, but students are thick, no matter how clever they are.


No problem.General Medical Council,the Registration Body of Medical Practitioners has an office in Scotland.
You're correct,in that the Registration is initially approved at the London office.
Republic of Ireland/UK recognise each other's Mb.Chb.,giving automatic right to practise.
 
 
# Juteman 2012-02-25 15:02
Thanks for the reply my fellow Dundonian.
Can you see where the confusion comes from though, if a UK (london) registration is required?
My daughter and her fellow students are worried that registration might be 'confused' in the period of independence switch-over.
Ten years from now, it will all be sorted, but we need students who are graduating during the independence 'upheaval' to know where they stand.
 
 
# Legerwood 2012-02-25 14:54
I assume as an Independent Country Scotland will have its own GMC or equivalent. The GMC already has an office in Scotland so there is already a structure/model in place. Regulation of the medical and allied professions was one of the powers that the SG wanted to be devolved but it remains on a UK wide basis. However, the GMC has recognised the differences of approach within the devolved areas hence its office in Scotland. (It also has offices in Ireland and Wales).

From the GMC website.
Quote:
""As a UK wide body, the General Medical Council regulates doctors registered in all four countries of the UK.
However, with increasingly divergent health structures and health policy across the UK, the GMC has established offices in Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales to respond effectively to devolution and ensure regulation remains appropriate in all four countries.""


gmc-uk.org/.../...

Doctors who qualify in Scotland will still be able to register with the GMC rUK if they wish to practice in rUK If an Independent Scotland is in the EU then doctors who qualify in Scotland will have the same rights to register and work in rUK as doctors from any other EU country.
see: Doctors crossing borders: Europe's new reality

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/.../...

If not in the EU then they can register in the same way as International Doctors.
Nor should they have to worry about their degree not being recognised:
From GMC website
Quote:
""Acceptable primary medical qualifications
All international medical graduates must possess an acceptable primary medical qualification to apply for registration with a licence to practise. In addition, international medical graduates will be required to demonstrate their medical knowledge and skills, knowledge of English, and fitness to practise before they are registered with a licence to practise.
The GMC defines an acceptable overseas qualification as one which meets the following criteria:
1. It must be a primary medical qualification in allopathic medicine that has been:
• Awarded by an institution listed on the Avicenna Directory for Medicine,
or
• Is otherwise acceptable to the GMC,
and
• Is currently acceptable to the GMC.""


Postgraduate Dental, Medical and Surgical exams and qualifications are administered by the various Royal Colleges. In Scotland for example we have the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh, The Royal College of Surgeons of Edinburgh and the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Glasgow. Generally the Colleges of Surgeons also have a Dental Faculty. These Royal Colleges together with the relevant Royal Colleges in England AND in Ireland co-operate to draw up and administer a common membership exam e.g MRCS or MRCP (UK). The Dentists have a similar UK-wide exam. There is also a Secretariat to administer the various Fellowship exams. Independence is unlikely to change this. It certainly did not stop the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland taking part in the MRCS exams so precedent and model exist for an independent Scotland.

there are designated training posts in hospitals and to qualify as such they must meet certain agreed criteria so that they are equivalent throughout the UK. Again why would an Independent Scotland try to re-invent the wheel. It would be able with minor adjustment to take cogniosance of local circumstance use the same system.

Hope that helps.
 
 
# Juteman 2012-02-25 15:13
Thanks Legerwood.
I will point my daughter and her fellow students towards this thread.
 
 
# brusque 2012-02-25 14:11
Can I please have an explanation about "disappearing" posts NNS?

They were no more than light hearted comments, so I can't see why the need to remove them.

[We will explain this in our next lead article. In the meantime FYI we are looking into how we can improve the quality of posts on the site.]
 
 
# pmcrek 2012-02-25 14:22
If you are vetting suggestions, a comment/profile history for users and a recommend button for comments would be great to have here if possible.
 
 
# tartanfever 2012-02-25 14:36
pm - i despair, you greens and your outlandish demands ! :-)
 
 
# pmcrek 2012-02-25 15:56
hehe
 
 
# brusque 2012-02-25 14:24
Quoting brusque:
Can I please have an explanation about "disappearing" posts NNS?

They were no more than light hearted comments, so I can't see why the need to remove them.

[We will explain this in our next lead article. In the meantime FYI we are looking into how we can improve the quality of posts on the site.]


Thank you for your reply, and inference that the quality of my posts is included in those that "need improving"!!. It is all getting to be a very serious business now - and whilst I agree that NNS must always be protected from the threat of words being used against them, I think a balance has to be achieved.

I'll leave it at that.
 
 
# mato21 2012-02-25 14:34
Sounds like Mr Moore who will publish the quality responses he gets to his submission

I have personally (since the birth of the site) found the quality quite high With a little light hearted banter for good measure when things are quiet

But hey ho what would I know
 
 
# brusque 2012-02-25 14:37
Quoting mato21:
Sounds like Mr Moore who will publish the quality responses he gets to his submission

I have personally (since the birth of the site) found the quality quite high With a little light hearted banter for good measure when things are quiet

But hey ho what would I know


Me too Mato. Here from when Newsnet Scotland was just a bairn:-)
 
 
# mato21 2012-02-25 14:46
I am aware of that brusque I have always enjoyed reading your posts I am also aware of many enlightened posters who no longer contribute and have wondered why
 
 
# Robabody 2012-02-25 20:50
Ditto
 
 
# J Wil 2012-02-25 15:46
I hope we are not moving into Brian Taylor territory.
 
 
# Dundonian West 2012-02-25 14:22
O/T 5 mins ago LABOUR at my door.Never seen them here before.
I saw the red rosette,and said:-
"Labour? No thanks".
Swung the door slowly shut.
Must make a note of the date!
 
 
# Jenny2603 2012-02-25 15:02
They must be out in force today. I've just had their election leaflet/newspaper through the door. I can reveal that Labour in Glasgow will be tackling potholes and dog dirt if re-elected! They've also enclosed a handy wee coupon to help me apply for a postal vote- how very thoughtful of them. I further note they have a FREEPOST address -Oh Lord if this is a test I fear it is one I may fail.
 
 
# tartanfever 2012-02-25 15:43
Potholes and dog dirt ? Now thats what I call tackling the big issues of the day !

If anyone else happens to meet a Labour canvasser today it might be good to try and get some answers out of them, like what lamont stands for ? Trident, Tuition fees and the like..
 
 
# Jenny2603 2012-02-25 16:51
Quoting tartanfever:
Potholes and dog dirt ? Now thats what I call tackling the big issues of the day !


Yep! It's mind blowing stuff. Cllr Mathieson informs us that 'people hate dog fouling because it's dirty...'.

You see it's this sort of insight and willingness to tackle controversial subjects that makes Labour such an attractive prospect to voters.
 
 
# tartanfever 2012-02-25 16:56
Dare I say it, it's obviously a 'pet' hate of his...

Sorry...
 
 
# Fortitudine 2012-02-25 20:22
They were in my street today too, but they'd gone before I realised... I had a wee bundle of my SNP candidates leaflets etc to swap with them hehe
 
 
# RandomScot 2012-02-25 17:02
GOOD!

As a Glaswegian I can tell you the potholes are bloody awful

I will happily turf out the current lot who have let the roads get to this state.

Now, tell me who the current mob are again?
 
 
# Jenny2603 2012-02-25 17:20
Quoting RandomScot:
GOOD!

As a Glaswegian I can tell you the potholes are bloody awful

I will happily turf out the current lot who have let the roads get to this state.

Now, tell me who the current mob are again?


Ah well er....it....was er.... it was Alex Salmond! He creeps around Glasgow by night making whacking great holes in the road but now all those rubbish councillors have been deselected Glasgow's A Team are going to put a stop to his potholing ways.
 
 
# tartanfever 2012-02-25 20:15
Sorry RS, I was making light of the state of the roads (which are a disgrace over much of Scotland I fear) - with the amount of taxes we pay you would hope for some improvement, but that doesn't seem to be happening.
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 18:34
I guess they must have got their knuckles wrapped for having their Glasgow H.Q. address on the May 2011 postal vote application forms they sent out.
 
 
# C2DEalba 2012-02-26 01:31
My mum got a labour leaflet recently, with a map of scotland physically separated from England. Vote no to separation was the heading however it contained nothing else but contact details for the councillor!

My sister wrote him a scathing letter about wasting time, money and effort. For good measure she added destroying the environment for such propaganda should be a crime!
 
 
# Teri 2012-02-25 15:49
I've never seen them at my door ever. I dont even get leaflets from them. I havent decided yet if they dont know that my street exists or that my street is not important to them. Wow, I wonder if I'll get a first time ever visit. Now, I'd enjoy that.
 
 
# tartanfever 2012-02-25 15:55
Obviously not enough pot holes and dog poo on your street Teri.
 
 
# Jenny2603 2012-02-25 16:31
Aw Teri,
You really are missing a treat. Sadly their latest leaflet isn't quite up to the legendary 'Vote SNP and you'll get stabbed' offering they sent out during the last election but it's amusing enough in it's way. I'm particularly tickled by the photo of 'Labour's A Team'.
 
 
# Dundonian West 2012-02-25 15:22
O/T Daily Telegraph nonsense fed to mainly South of the Border readership. SSE.
telegraph.co.uk/.../...

Site open for 'Recommends'etc.
 
 
# Teri 2012-02-25 15:47
I think the Labour isider who said they would rather have a nutter than a Nat, is absolutely spot on. You only have to look at some Labour councillors, MSPs and MPs to see that is the case and has been a party rule since the SNP took power in Holyrood in 2007.

I couldnt care less if Eric Joyce stayed or left, but I have to say that he's been in a bad way for quite some time yet the party have done nothing to help or support him as far as I know. It was the same with Jim Devine; the decline in him was also obvious for long and weary but I doubt any support was given. I would have thought that political parties would have had a duty of care to their elected members, but in the case of Labour I see no evidence for it.

Does the expression 'Labour would rather have a nutter in a seat than a Nat' also apply to Gordon Brown? It has been alleged that he's not exactly stable, he seldom attends Westminster, earns over a million privately, yet is not forced to stand down.

As for the Scottish Labour and Consevative leaders, it has been shown beyond doubt that Scottish Leader is a title only. I think they would be better named Scottish facilitator because that is exactly what they are; the people who have to carry out their Westminster leaders' orders and get party members to do likewise. How much success they are having at that, I would not know. I have yet to see evidence of it.
 
 
# border reiver 2012-02-25 16:50
This is my first post on newsnet, I am so pleased to have found a site that tells it as it is. I saw a comment from someone a few weeks ago saying how frustrated they were, and felt like throwing the tele through the window, that was exactly my feelings as i have been so upset by the totaly biased media coverage, especialy the BBC who i always believed to be fair and honest so this has come as a total shock and i do not trust a word they say anymore. Anyway back to the article at hand. To prove just how much Labour has the Record in their pocket, todays edition also states that "Lamont has made a decent fist of tackling AS at FMQ's performing better than many critics predicted" How on earth can anyone in their right mind come to a conclusion like that, she is a disaster zone and I am sure even the Labour MSP's if they were honest would agree. The only thing that will keep her in place is if she continues to be Westminsters lap dog
 
 
# Alba4Eva 2012-02-25 17:22
Welcome Border Reiver... just to let you know, we have a Darkened Room which can be used when you require... it is kept locked, but feel free to ask for the key anytime you feel the need. *;0)
 
 
# scotsgal 2012-02-25 17:57
Yes I too find it refreshing to find a less caustic approach to the idea of independence. I so dislike the spin I read on other sites or even on the tv, the way that so few of those south of the border really know what its all about and the lack of transparency within our Westminster government.
 
 
# tartanfever 2012-02-25 20:16
welcome along br. Hope you enjoy the site.
 
 
# Robabody 2012-02-25 20:59
Welcome BR and may I just add, to resist urge to go into the darkened room (as a few of our contributers often need to) I find that shouting "Action Krankie" while leaping up from the PC is way to avoid said darkened room.........oh er, on the other hand, maybe not!
 
 
# nottooweeorstupid 2012-02-25 21:32
I hope reference to the Darkened Room won't be seen as too flippant in the new moderation climate? Please mods let us have a little light relief.....
I've never tried the Action Krankie thing, must give it a go! Welcome to you border reiver, enjoy.
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 21:45
Robabody, I think you've had one two many of Macart's "special cups of tea" tonight.

I think you are long overdue a lie down you know where! :D
 
 
# Angus 2012-02-26 02:24
Welcome Reiver,
its good to have a borderer on board, the front line tough lads that did more for Scotland than most Scots know about!
 
 
# Alba4Eva 2012-02-25 16:58
Good Luck Sion... may the Daffodils be standing proud shortly *;0)

Edit: Just like Scotland.... nervey to the death!

Brilliant. *;0)
 
 
# Robabody 2012-02-25 20:04
M/s Lamont
“Tick, tock” goes the clock...
“Tick”....misleading the Scottish parliament regarding a rape case”
“Tock”....”nae change” for Scotland, subservience are us
“Tick”....unrestricted bullying and harassment of a female party colleague against her son
“Tock”.... “Lord” defames the holocaust dead
“Tick”....utter blethers’ regarding the new forth bridge steel contract
“Tock”.... violent attack on opposition, fellow party members, officials and police by a party MP
“Tick”....
Well Johann, where are you, what have you to say? Stuck between “tick and tock” I suppose.....only this time it is not Lorien that is asking you, it is us, the people of Scotland................and the answer is?
 
 
# From The Suburbs 2012-02-25 21:44
I won't hold my breathy to wait for Johann Lamentable being challenged by the MSM or BBC.
 
 
# tartanfever 2012-02-25 21:55
I know what you mean, but how about this. The BBC are holding two web based question and answer sessions with Rennie and Lamont during their respective party conferences next month. They are asking for submissions to be e-mailed in.

I've already sent in my submission, a question for lamont on her lack of policies. What is her policy on Trident, student fees, council tax freeze, prescriptions and so on.

If enough of us send in these questions, which are perfectly reasonable, maybe one or two may be picked up.

All the info is on the BBC website here:

bbc.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 22:01
Unfortunately tartan, we all know how biased the EBC is I would have grave doubts that your perfectly reasonable question will make it through. We all know how much Flubber feigns at the feet of Labour. I am sure all the questions will be picked to show her in the best possible light.
 
 
# tartanfever 2012-02-25 22:04
You're right, but it's still worth a go in my book. Remember, there's going to be a bit of coverage from this I would expect and many journo's up there asking similar questions (I hope, up to you Mr McWhirter) and as the conferences only come along every so often....

Go on, go for it...
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 22:15
Of course you are right tartan.

They can only ignore "our" questions for so long. They are going to have to start asking the really pertinent questions of the unionist parties at some stage.
 
 
# .Scot 2012-02-25 23:50
The BBC got it so wrong on Burns Night,and with an onslaught of difficult questions for Mrs Graham such as those above, the BBC will simply have a more difficult time bluffing their way through the half hour. We can give the Beeb some assistance in getting it all wrong again.

bbc.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# weegie38 2012-02-25 21:46
What's particularly disgusting about The Silence of the Lam here, is that she actually claimed tackling workplace intimidation was a priority of hers, in her first speech as leader.

Well Johann, you've got a bully in charge of the Scottish Grand Committee, intimidation in Glasgow Council, and now this. Sort out your own midden first before lecturing others, hen!
 
 
# robbie 2012-02-25 22:17
Hopefully the mod will let me post this.
tinyurl.com/83xzyv5

The Daily Rubbish did allow it.
 
 
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-25 22:25
Very apt :D
 
 
# .Scot 2012-02-25 22:45
Hmmm. Punching a couple of British MPs or sparking a diplomatic row by falsely accusing the whole Montenegro nation of war-crimes and ethnic cleansing in Parliament. Which should carry the greatest outrage????? There does appear to be a strange desperation for the UK to pick fights with the rest of the planet and sometimes even itself.
 
 
# Guig 2012-02-26 07:40
Has Lamont commented on anything since she became the Labour leader?
 
 
# Ard Righ 2012-02-26 11:06
"Can you imagine working for a company that only has a little more than 635 employees, but, has the following employee statistics..

29 have been accused of spouse abuse
7 have been arrested for fraud
9 have been accused of writing bad cheques
... 17 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
3 have done time for assault
71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
8 have been arrested for shoplifting
21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
84 have been arrested for drink driving in the last year,

and,

collectively, this year alone, they have cost the British tax payer
£92,993,748 in expenses!

Which organisation is this?

It's the 635 members of the House of Commons."
 
 
# Stevie Cosmic 2012-02-27 08:15
Nice :)
 
 
# Ard Righ 2012-02-28 12:44
Can't claim credit for that one, another NNS commenter posted it last year, too good not to save for such moments!
 
 
# Dundonian West 2012-02-26 16:52
Sorreee----I just can't help it.Read the headline.
When the man's down,even his friends dish this out:-
dailyrecord.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# Dancemaster 2012-02-26 17:27
So what does everybody make of this Rupert Murdoch business? I cannot believe that Alex has made such a faux pas. This could badly backfire on us at a time when we were going from strength to strength.
 
 
# snowthistle 2012-02-26 18:42
Just don't understand how a politician who is so astute, who has hardly put a foot wrong, has done this.
He's always been right before so maybe I shouldn't doubt him but it just seems crazy to me. Hope I'm wrong
 

You must be logged-in in order to post a comment.

Banner

Donate to Newsnet Scotland

Latest Comments