By a Newsnet reporter

Scots have become used to outrageous claims from Unionist politicians about the terrible things that would happen if Scotland voted to become independent.  This week Conservative peer Peter Fraser, Lord Fraser of Carmyllie, has made possibly the most astonishing outburst of all.  According to Mr Fraser, the Westminster government could bomb Glasgow and Edinburgh airports to defend itself from possible attacks if Scotland became an independent nation.

Mr Fraser insisted that if the Scottish people voted in favour of Scottish independence, the country would be left undefended.  He expressed his fear that enemies of the rump-UK would then be able to use Scotland as a base for launching air strikes, adding:  "If that were to happen what alternative would England have but to come and bomb the hell out of Glasgow airport and Edinburgh airport."

The former Solicitor General for Scotland and Lord Advocate also claimed that the SNP's desire to remove UK nuclear forces from Scotland and to reduce the country's navy to "fishery protection vessels" would turn Scotland into a warzone.  A country with a few vessels for fishery guard was "asking to be invaded," he said.

He added:  "I would not wish my beloved Scotland to be a war zone for those with evil intent on the sovereignty of England.  That was, however, the risk.  If we totally failed to defend ourselves alone or in conjunction with England, we offered up ourselves as the battleground."

The former Lord Advocate said he did not know who could have "evil intentions against England" but claimed that the twentieth century taught the world that never "let your guard down."

Mr Fraser's outburst comes in a week when SNP defence spokesperson Angus Robertson has highlighted the lack of UK defence cover in Scotland due to cuts in the MoD budget.  The cuts leave Scotland without any long distance surveillance capacity, and with just two Royal Navy vessels other than those devoted to the protection of the UK's nuclear capacity based at Faslane on the Clyde.

However at the same time as he made his comments about Scottish airports being bombed, the Tory peer said that nothing will stop Scotland from becoming an independent nation and questioned whether fighting to keep the Union together is worth the effort.

Mr Fraser, a former minister in John Major's government, made the remarks on Monday during the launch of a pamphlet he wrote for the think-tank Politeia.  In the pamphlet he writes: "All empirical evidence points to a break-up", and criticised Unionist politicians for their lack of "fresh thinking", adding that "the status quo points only to disaster" and claiming "there is a muddle over why the union matters."

Mr Fraser has a problematic history with Scottish airports.  In February 2007 police were called to Dundee airport following reports of a disturbance on board an aircraft.  Police arrested Mr Fraser, who was charged with disorderly conduct on an aircraft which had just landed at the airport. Later that month the Crown Office announced that it had dropped charges due to insufficient evidence.


# SEUMAS31 2012-03-16 07:08
# Displaced Patriot 2012-03-16 07:20
Where do the Unionists find these nutters?
# Jim Johnston 2012-03-16 08:35
Ditto from me DP,
The Unionist seem to have an endless supply of barking mad nutters.

Fraser needs treatment asap, he's daft as a ships cat.
# nchanter 2012-03-16 11:08
Quoting Displaced Patriot:
Where do the Unionists find these nutters?

Who famously said "I'd rather have a nutter than a nat.
# oldfoggie 2012-03-16 17:01
We have always had them they are what they think is the elite, only they are all yesterdays men now.
# edinburgh quine 2012-03-16 07:23
I sent the link that I found in 'Wings Over Scotland' to someone in Australia, giving him an idea of what kind of stupid scare stories we had to contend with. He's still laughing out loud 3 days later. Passing it around his friends over there, many of whom are, like him, Scots by birth, the result was same. They think the man is nuts, and works in phyciatric care, so he should know!

The other, more serious point is, at the moment, according to the television the other night, Scotland currently has no naval ships north of the Clyde and they're there to protect Faslane, so what protection do we have now?
# Holebender 2012-03-16 07:25
Just... bizarre.
# Robabody 2012-03-16 15:43
It has indeed been a week of bizarre stuff HB.....the labour party re booze, the BBC's behaviour re Nicola and now this. Still Lord F will know all about bombs I expect.
# Angus 2012-03-16 07:42
So this is what we are to our partners in 'union', you leave us and you ll get a kicking!
Scaremongering at its best.
# nchanter 2012-03-16 11:10
Quoting Angus:
So this is what we are to our partners in 'union', you leave us and you ll get a kicking!
Scaremongering at its best.

Or maybe a doin
# frankyB 2012-03-16 07:45
I love it. Can we get him to speak in public up here?
# Vincent McDee 2012-03-16 07:47
C'mon! Don't be picky with the guy, at least he's sensible !;-}

Scottish Independence Vote: The UK's Breakup Is Inevitable, Warns Lord Peter Fraser

"Nothing will stop Scotland from becoming an independent nation, a Tory peer has warned, questioning whether fighting to keep the union together is worth the effort."
# hiorta 2012-03-16 08:10
The all consuming arrogance of these skewed Unionists is frightening.
These people have weapons of mass destruction hidden in various places and their grip on the concept of democracy is ephemeral at best.

Somehow our wee corner of our planet is seen as English property, to do with as they seem fit.
Scary stuff based on playground might-is-right ethics.
# clootie 2012-03-16 08:11
Well having been "off line" for a few days I didn't think the scare stories could have gotten much worse in such a short time - silly me!

If this doesn't convince people we are being bombarded with stupid scare stories nothing will.

I need to go and clean up my keyboard now!
# UpSpake 2012-03-16 08:17
Whatever. This turncoat amongst a field of other Scots spewing vicious bile towards their homeland is the worst kind of 5th Columnist that we have bred to wear the ermine.
One sniff of the Westminster trough and they are hooked. Job for life and so called 'honors', do nothing for me.
When Scotland (SNP) laid the mark, ie the call for self-determination the UK was doen for.
That's what scares the hell out of them and is why the hatred is so focused, they stand to lose everything.
# northernshedboy 2012-03-16 08:20
Did the good Lord say where the English bombers would take off from?

Its just as likely unfriendly forces would use England to launch an attack on Scotland so I guess we need to bomb their airports first.

Now remind me - where did we leave the nuke access codes?
# proudscot 2012-03-16 14:23
Quoting northernshedboy :
Did the good Lord say where the English bombers would take off from?

Its just as likely unfriendly forces would use England to launch an attack on Scotland so I guess we need to bomb their airports first.

Now remind me - where did we leave the nuke access codes?

Northernshedboy , you'll have to go to the Pentagon to get the nuke access codes, if you ever need to fire the UK's so-called "independent" nuclear deterrent WMD's at anyone. This would, of course, entail obtaining the permission of the US President, as he has the final say on when any US controlled nukes can be fired.

Which rather shows up Wee Willie Warmonger Hague and the rest of his "we're still an important global power" Tory fantasists, for what they are. Pompous appendages, posturing on the world stage, while the rest of the world looks on, some with pity, but most shaking their heads in disbelief.
# ButeHouse 2012-03-16 14:47
We could just about put up with the Tory global power fantasises if that's all they were proudscot but Trident and rushing after the USA into every other war they get into is costing us all a fortune.

As for this latest nonsense I'm with frankyb. Let's have him up here to speak all around the country. I have 0ne and ninepence ready to go into his expense fund sitting by my laptop as we speak. Where do I send it? VOTE YES
# Robert Louis 2012-03-16 08:30
Another Tory Tumshie, with ridiculous threats about Scotland.

Tomorrow another Tory peer will tell us, in all seriousness, that the sky REALLY will fall down in an independent Scotland.
# snowthistle 2012-03-16 08:35
Don't know that this chap is particularly typical. Exotic creatures such as him are, fortunately, rare.
# MajorBloodnok 2012-03-16 09:03
Apart from in the unelected House of Lords, of course.
# pmcrek 2012-03-16 08:38
Westminster is sorely lacking the expertise, they'd probably bomb Newcastle by mistake.
# Exile 2012-03-16 09:22
"Please can you give us some of your oil so we can fuel the planes to bomb your airports?" Aye, right.
# tartanfever 2012-03-16 08:51
I'd love to know who he thinks is going to invade us ?

And this is meant to be a man of reason, a man of law, a man of balance. Beggars belief.
# Legerwood 2012-03-16 12:40
They would have to change at heathrow or Gatwick - no direct flights to Scotland. Guess he forgot about that.
# Lamplighter 2012-03-16 09:05
An interplanetary traveller. Like many of our Lordships.

But he's a former Solicitor General and Lord Advocate... Makes you wonder about the abilities of those who appointed him.

On the other hand, maybe he knows something we dont!
# edinburgh quine 2012-03-16 09:08
And am I right in thinking he was in charge when the Locherbie court case was in full flight (no pun intended)
# tartanfever 2012-03-16 09:26
# Barontorc 2012-03-16 09:32
EQ - yes, you're spot-on. He's the guy in charge when others were making an absolute ass of the Scottish Justice System over the Lockerbie/Al-Megrahi stitch-up.

See this week's Scottish Review, the conclusion here:-

The weight of evidence that the Lockerbie bomb was introduced at Heathrow (not all of which can be rehearsed here) is absolutely compelling. In contrast the evidence that the bomb transited from Malta through Frankfurt is beyond tenuous. In addition, no dispassionate examination of Tony Gauci's various and varied statements can possibly lead to the conclusion that Abdelbaset al-Megrahi bought the clothes in the bomb suitcase. Bearing in mind that Megrahi was verifiably in Tripoli at 4pm on 21st December 1988, the time John Bedford took his tea break, some might reasonably observe that he has an alibi. It was his misfortune to be at the other end of the blind alley the investigators pursued to Malta, looking just suspicious enough and with the right contacts to have a wholly inferential case constructed against him.

Morag Kerr writes on behalf of the Justice for Megrahi Committee
# Vincent McDee 2012-03-16 14:43
Just doting the is:

"Lord Fraser drew up the 1991 indictment against the two accused Libyans and issued warrants for their arrest.

But five years after the Pan Am Flight 103 bombing trial, when Abdelbaset al-Megrahi was convicted of 270 counts of murder, he cast doubt upon the reliability of the main prosecution witness, Tony Gauci.

According to The Sunday Times of October 23, 2005, Lord Fraser criticised the Maltese shopkeeper, who sold Megrahi the clothing that was used to pack the bomb suitcase, for inter alia being "not quite the full shilling" and "an apple short of a picnic".
# MajorBloodnok 2012-03-16 09:15
Someone referred to him as Lord Fraser of Carstairs somewhere. Apt.
# Exile 2012-03-16 09:20
I think Lord Fraser has been reading too many stories of the Spanish Armada and English foreign policy to contain France in the 17th and 18th centuries. He doesn't seem to realise the present day Spanish Armada consists of fishing boats, to which Scotland is currently defenceless due to London using our fishing industry as a negotiating pawn.

Apart from all that, why on earth does the man imagine Scotland, once independent, will be as slipshod regarding defence as the UK undoubtedly is?
# Marga B 2012-03-16 11:34
Crikey, even the Spanish have said they're not going to invade on this occasion.
# Robabody 2012-03-16 15:40
Aye Marga B - but have you asked the Norsemen - they might want to go Viking again in their stealth ships
# thomsor 2012-03-16 09:20
Barking Mad I reckon.
# the wallace 2012-03-16 09:34
The unionist mask just slipped a little bit more.
# SEUMAS31 2012-03-16 10:31
At least, he plays a mean guitar so he has some skills.
# Angus 2012-03-16 10:34
Where will the English bombers buy their fuel?
At least we ll no have to pay a liscence fee to listen to all the anti Scottish propaganda when they do invade.
# bringiton 2012-03-16 10:36
As always,these unionists see life from an Anglo centric perspective.As long as the mother country (England)is protected nothing else matters.
Scotland and it's people are expendible in order to protect the sovereign mother of parliaments and it's establishment.
Who is going to pay his and his fellow peers wages when Scotland becomes independent?
Can't see the English people being too keen on paying for unelected representatives from a foreign country.
# J Wil 2012-03-16 10:47
"According to Mr Fraser, the Westminster government could bomb Glasgow and Edinburgh airports to defend itself from possible attacks if Scotland became an independent nation."

In theory that is no different to what they are doing now, by having Trident located a stones throw from Glasgow and, not much further, from Edinburgh, but hundred of miles from London.
# Teri 2012-03-16 19:49
This same dear Lord has also suggested that Trident should be relocated to Scapa Flow when Scotland becomes independent as Orkney and Shetland wish to remain in the UK. He says the rUK royal navy could guard it.

I do think he's really lost the plot and should be put out to graze.
# alexb 2012-03-16 10:50
While Fraser,s rant is off the scale, this type of article is what we are going to have to suffer for the next two and a half years till the referendum takes place. As I have warned before, there are rich, and powerful forces doing their best to derail our independence plans, and they will literally stop at nothing to preserve what they see as their union.
# velofello 2012-03-16 11:04
His article could be taken as a note of caution to Westminster. He states that Scotland's independence is inevitable, and, no need to spell it out, but that England/Westminster undoubtably has enemies. So better for England to amicably settle independence with Scotland and so seek a joint security strategy for England and Scotland post-independence.
i'm absolutely opposed to any settlement that leaves defense and foreign affairs,and Trident in the hands of England/Westminster. A joint home defense agreement would make sense.
# Saltire Groppenslosh 2012-03-16 11:31
If England got invaded and their airports were to be used as launch sites for airborne attacks against Scotland, do you not think we would take the same action. In fact this action or scenario will have been thought out well before independence became an issue.

Yet again, just another scare story based loosely on strategic scenarios and twisted to try to counter the argument for independence.

When will this stop. We're not scared. In fact it is this idiot and his cronies that are scared of independence for obvious reasons.
# Katie Beardie 2012-03-16 11:48
Lord Fraser talks about the perceived lack of defence of in an independent Scotland. However, it seems to have slipped his mind that this is already the case, the recent example being Russian battleships dumping nefarious substances in the Moray Firth and the only available Navy ship having to chug up from Portsmouth to investigate. Good to think before you speak.
# Legerwood 2012-03-16 12:53
This story below also shows the shortcomings in the protection Scotland gets from the Union.

No standby warships to guard Britain for a month (Nov 2011)

""The Navy normally provides a minimum coverage of a frigate or destroyer fulfilling the role of Fleet Ready Escort (FRE) in order to be able to respond quickly to a potential threat at home or abroad.
However, slashed Defence budgets and the war in Libya has meant there hasn't been a vessel available since the start of October.
The last ship to fill the role, called the FRE, was HMS Portland but that left for war games off the coast of Scotland in October, and it is now having a rest period in Plymouth on the south coast.
Former First Sea Lord Admiral Lord Alan West said: "I would hardly say it is a luxury. If there was a terrorism incident in UK waters, this would historically be the ship sent in to deal with it.

It would not be too difficult for an Independent Scotland to make a better fist of it than the UK Government is doing with regards to defending ourselves.
# nchanter 2012-03-16 13:23
If I was a serving soldier in the front line and read this tripe about England bombing my homeland I think my loyalty would slip (to say the least) This fool should be locked up in a think tank.
# DJ 2012-03-16 20:19
I think he should be afforded maximum publicity. Articles like that can only help our cause.
# neebor 2012-03-16 13:50
Although absolute fantasy, this really worries me.

Apart from the fact that 'just call me dave' is currently in the US, for, lets face it, discussions about NATO/Israel attacking Iran, the Falklands/Argentine dispute (where the britnats are banking on an alternative source of crude oil) along with the imminent displacement of trident (I actually think cameron will bin it, as there's nothing left under the mattress) as an ex Royal Marine Commando (and still proud of it even though I joined the SNP at 16 and was chastised for it) the fact remains that after RNAS Condor is closed and 45 Commando is moved to the South of England, (makes real sense to move the Mountain & Artic Warfare Unit to Somerset dunnit ?) we will have NO rapid reaction force whatsoever (with or without training) left to guard our offshore installations. What does that say to global terrorists ? The Russians are no threat, the nutters are !

On top of that, when RAF Leuchars becomes an army base, having been the foremost airbase in the North of the UK to guard against intruders for generations and still has state of the art NEW runways, what will we do ? Get the Black Watch to scramble for a battalion full moon ?

Mind you, the thought of that scares the s***e outta me !
# Robabody 2012-03-16 21:17
Relax neebor, the Mountain & Arctic Warfare Unit will, I'm sure, be quite at home on Dart and Bodmin moor's apart from the belted Galloway's, Heiland coo's and tourists brought in to improve the hinterland. And as for Leuchars...well once Ryan air get the place (Dundee St Andrew's??)the Russians and the Nutters will be so busy paying for the extra's they'll have no time to attack anything. For your enjoyment (well it is Friday):
# bigbuachaille 2012-03-16 14:00
This inane assertion by Fraser is the sort of ludicrous diversionary tactic we can expect to hear more of, when the truth about the Lockerbie cover-up is finally released. Watch out for more stupid headlines in the unionist press when the SCCRC’s findings are finally made public.
# Dubai_scot 2012-03-16 14:19
Much as some of us may like to bash the good Lord he made a couple of relevant points;

"There is plenty on which to negotiate, says Lord Fraser, to the benefit of both countries, provided each recognizes the true interests at stake, economic, demographic and defence. He suggests we might consider an updated model for modern democracies of the Roman idea of a ‘client state’: one which allowed closely linked, self-determining nations to live side by side and agree formally their respective powers over foreign, defence and economic matters."

If you read his whole commentry he lets it be known there is an agreeable status that could circumvent the need for a referendum. The above extract, while not too polished by Fraser certainly gives us food for thought.

It would get neatly round those against independance.

When you go for negotiations the best result is always a WIN:WIN !
# Boris Broon 2012-03-16 14:32
Scotland won't be under threat of invasion from anyone. It's not as if we share a border with a country who launches unprovoked and illegal invasions of sovereign states.................oh, hang on a minute.
# GuidedByPollard 2012-03-16 14:56
Aren't the Argentinians talking about invading Falkland?
# Maryston4 2012-03-16 15:05
Quoting GuidedByPollard :
Aren't the Argentinians talking about invading Falkland?

Well, no, they're not. They are talking about legally challenging British companies who extract or aid in the extraction of South Atlantic oil.

But, even if they were - are you suggesting Port Stanley first; next stop Stranraer?
# GuidedByPollard 2012-03-16 15:09
no, Fife...near West and East Lomond
# Maryston4 2012-03-16 15:15
Quoting GuidedByPollard :
no, Fife...near West and East Lomond

Got you Guided.... Good point ;-)
# GuidedByPollard 2012-03-16 15:22
It's no more daft a suggestion than English bombers targeting Scottish airports, no?
# K Mackay 2012-03-16 15:18
"However at the same time as he made his comments about Scottish airports being bombed, the Tory peer said that nothing will stop Scotland from becoming an independent nation and questioned whether fighting to keep the Union together is worth the effort."

At least he got one thing right.

He should ask John Smeaton what happens when you try to bomb a Scottish airport.
# Davy 2012-03-16 15:40
Damm damm damm, how did that Lord fraser of Carmyllie find out our cunning plan ? Being an undercoveragent for E.I.S.E. - (Evil Intent on the Sovereignty of England) I thought we had covered our tracks well by operating under covernames such as "Davy".
How was it possible for Lord Fraser and his frightingly cunning Tory party to discover the many years of deception and deceit that we of E.I.S.E. have been able to promote through the many foolish Scottish persons under the disguse of Independence, but it really meant INVASION.

Our bombers will now have to return to their secret bases under the North Pole (just three secret bases away from Santa's.)Discounts available.

But we will be back, HA HA HA HE HE Haa.
# bigbuachaille 2012-03-16 15:47
The view from Russia:
# lochside 2012-03-16 16:00
Was Lord Carmyle one of those nutted by Eric Joyce? Sounds like he's still got concussion!
# nchanter 2012-03-16 17:04
Quoting lochside:
Was Lord Carmyle one of those nutted by Eric Joyce? Sounds like he's still got concussion!

Or nated
# BeltaneFire 2012-03-16 16:20
Absolutely, astonishingly stupid remark!

Why is there the assumption that our relationship with England will be based on antagonism? If any of our neighbours are attacked, I would think that we would go to their aid. Why shouldn't the opposite be the case?

And again, there is this idea that Scotland won't have a defence force appropriate to the possible threat.

Who would attack us? Russia? China? These are the only likely powers that may do so in a conventional sense. Anything else is more likely to be terrorism, and having heavily armed warships in great numbers won't necessarily put a stop to any of that. I don't imagine that the Royal Navy and Air Force is all that stands between us and oblivion. We simply aren't that powerful as part of the UK.

His are ridiculous comments not backed-up by facts!
# edinburghdave 2012-03-16 16:23

That is all.

Omn side note. Did anybody notice how chummy cameron adn taosaich Enda Kenny were this week?

So, its ok to do 1bn pounds of business and create good relations with Southern Ireland, whilst your foreignn minister is gracing the leather seats in the UN spouting off about arab self determination?

But if your Scotland dont even THINK that you are worth any of these things!

The hypocrisy makes me want to scream.
# Juteman 2012-03-16 16:54
I didn't name anyone, mods.
What was wrong with my post?

If you wish to appeal a moderation decision please use the 'contact us' button - NNS Mod Team
# Lianachan 2012-03-16 17:06
There's a common misconception around here that NNS is some sort of bastion of greatness, and that it's much more accmmodating than, say, the BBC. It really isn't. The level of censorship around here is appalling, and the hypocrisy of it would be hilarious if it wasn't so outrageous.
# Chateaulait 57 2012-03-16 17:48
I'm surprised it took NNS so long to pick up on this piece of classical buffoonery, it was reported in Tuesday's Sun, just a small piece, a couple of paragraphs, i assumed they had let slip their April fool story three week's early, apparently not.

I know the anti independence campaigners are getting desperate regurgitating the same old scare stories almost on a weekly basis, but this, "bombing our airports", really take's the biscuit, just how much more of the scare story barrel is there left to scrape.

How about we give them a hand, "An independent Scotland's airspace would be unprotected in a Martian invasion",

Comment edited By NNS Mod Team
# Jiggsbro 2012-03-16 18:14
Quoting Chateaulait 57:
How about we give them a hand, "An independent Scotland's airspace would be unprotected in a Martian invasion",

Nonsense. We have bagpipes, which are easily as effective as Slim Whitman's "Indian Love Call".
# Robabody 2012-03-16 21:34
Good grief Jiggsbro you bounder - you know how to hurt, I'd forgotten all about this: "There's a rainbow in every teardrop you're crying". One of my father's Slim Whitman favourites...
# mmarsattacks 2012-03-17 20:34
Bagpipes won't save you, puny human!
# Briggs 2012-03-16 21:00
'just how much more of the scare story barrel is there left to scrape'

Through it's bum into the ground below?
# fittie 2012-03-16 18:20
Oh well the other airports like Dyce will get more business----
# Corm 2012-03-16 18:35
Can I just ask...What enemies of the UK?
# Fraser 2012-03-16 18:58
Just a thought: how many international airports are there in Europe that are a lot closer to London than Edinburgh and Glasgow..I mean should we be telling our friends in France, Belgium, Holland, Germany etc etc etc?
# Hirta 2012-03-16 20:12
O/T - fill it out:
# Hamish100 2012-03-16 21:05
Shouldn't he be arrested?
# snowthistle 2012-03-16 21:08
arrested?? what for?
# Jiggsbro 2012-03-16 21:58
Threatening to bomb airports. Paul Chambers got a £3000 fine (incl. costs) for a joke on Twitter about blowing up Robin Hood airport.
# snowthistle 2012-03-16 22:35
I don't think we should be getting ourselves quite so exercised about the whole thing. |It's a fluffy distraction, not worth the effort
# dundie 2012-03-17 22:31
Some pillock in Dundee got 4 years for suggesting on a social networking site that the good folk of Dundee should join their alleged brethren in London and have a wee riot. Surely this falls into the same category of crime?
# Arraniki 2012-03-16 22:29
I echo Seamas31's comment.
Says it all for me.
Why waste the time with this nonsense?
# Angus 2012-03-17 00:20
We are not wasting our time, with this.
If the Daily Mail was Scottish and printed anti English stuff (like all the anti Scottish stuff they print) then the editors would have been jailed.
Political correctness suits the British government only. We should not tolerate being bullied, we should not let them get away with it.
# truth 2012-03-17 02:02
Then there's Jack McConnell, the bully.

Another of "oor betters" otherwise know as Lords.
# fiona4independance 2012-03-17 05:53
Like the comment from Angus reflecting on the union being false. Why would the country we share a border with want to bomb us? It makes a mockery out of unionism as it currently stands. It feels like bribery - like unionist saying - stay with us or else. I bet support for independence has boosted after this.
# skelf 2012-03-26 04:36
Living in Australia I put this astounding article on my facebook so my Aussie friends could read it I received a reply from a brother in law who lives in the north of England. He wanted to kinow where I was getting this crap from. I said British newspapers. No reply so far Skelf

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