By Martin Kelly
The SNP’s Local Government Minister Derek Mackay has said the party is confident of making gains “across the country” and “in cities” as parties waited for counting to begin in Scotland.
Mr Mackay was speaking after voters turned out to cast their ballot in Scotland’s local authority elections. 

Commenting on his party’s expectations, Mr Mackay said:

"The SNP has fought a positive campaign focused on jobs, families and fairness.  Key commitments such as freezing the council tax until 2016, more free and flexible childcare, and guaranteed job and training opportunities for young people have resonated well on the doorsteps.

"We believe this has helped us to make advances in every area of the country, and we are hopeful that we will meet our objectives of winning more votes and more seats."

The SNP Minister also tantalisingly predicted an SNP win in one of Scotland’s major cities – although Glasgow was left out of the list of possibilities that included Edinburgh and Stirling.

The result of the Glasgow contest will be eagerly awaited and early reports suggest a close contest.  A loss for Labour will signal a crisis for the party in Scotland.

Counts will begin early Friday and will be conducted using a new electronic system.  Mr Mackay sought to allay fears over the use of the new machines and said: “The electronic counting system had been subjected to rigorous testing which should protect against the failures of the past.”

Turnout is expected to be low, despite polling day voters enjoying bright sunshine and a still, warm day.  Coverage has also been hampered by media focus on attacks on First Minister Alex Salmond over his meetings with Rupert Murdoch.

The contest has also been marred after Unionist parties launched a personal attack on the integrity of top Civil Servant Sir Peter Housden after the mandarin rejected complaints that campaign rules had been broken by Mr Mackay.

Lib Dem leader Willie Rennie reacted to the official’s judgement by questioning his impartiality and labelling him “an SNP lackey” after Sir Peter ruled that an announcement of an agreement with Cosla by the Minister did not contravene election guidelines.

Speaking to the Scotsman newspaper, Mr Rennie said: “Yet again Sir Peter has failed to uphold the traditions of the independent civil service.  He is acting more like an SNP lackey than the head of the Civil Service in Scotland.

“The SNP clearly broke ‘purdah’ rules by making an announcement on council funding during the election period.  It was an election gimmick and an abuse of Derek Mackay’s position as local government minister.

“Sir Peter has repeatedly failed to take a balanced view of complaints against the SNP government. This is yet another decision that questions his impartiality. Sir Peter needs to be reminded that he works for the public, not for the SNP.”

Mr Rennie’s view was backed by Labour MSP Paul Martin who said: “The checks and balances that the permanent secretary is supposed to be providing in his role are being sorely missed and Sir Peter Housden seems content to cheer Alex Salmond on rather than scrutinise his conduct.”

Conservative leader Ruth Davidson said: “I find it astonishing that a ministerial announcement in the middle of an election campaign does not contravene the purdah rules.”

A spokesman for the Scottish Government dismissed the attacks and said: “Announcements during the local government election period are a matter for Ministers.  The announcement with Cosla resulted from an agreement between the Scottish Government and all Scottish local authorities and benefits all areas of Scotland.”

The announcement of an agreement between the SNP Government and local authorities signalled support for families on low incomes who faced losing council tax benefit after cuts from the UK coalition.


# km 2012-05-04 01:18
I think Ruth Davidson is astonished by a lot of things.
# davemsc 2012-05-04 10:51
I'm astonished by Ruth Davidson... (And not in a good way.)
# SNP George Town Branch 2012-05-04 02:22
All the best for SNP!
# Diabloandco 2012-05-04 06:04
How come already the DM is claiming 500 - 700 Labour council seat gains in England?
Are they doing an overnight count?
I'd like to see how many postal vote in each council.
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 06:09
They're using FPTP and counting is already well underway/complete in some areas.
# Diabloandco 2012-05-04 07:14
# cardrossian 2012-05-04 06:15
Party politics should have no place in local government. Party politics are detrimental to local government. While I hope that the SNP wallop Labour, I would hope that in an independent Scotland we can move away from this disingenious system. Take a lesson from the Highlands where an area bigger than Wales returns many independents and in general gives good local government.
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 06:18
Yes, I'm all for gains for anyone/any party that's non-unionist. So long as Conliblab take a hammering I'm happy.
# paulmahon 2012-05-04 06:54
The problem with the "independent" councillors is trying to work out if the really are independent. Some of our "independents" in the Western Isles regularly attend Labour Party meetings and one, elected to the council as an "independent", ran unsuccesfully as the Labour candidate for westminster in 2010, and was on the council ballot yesterday as an "independent"!
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 07:21
Yes, true. I had one SNP, one indy and one Borders Party in my ward against Lib/Con/Lab. I voted SNP and for the indy after looking into the indy's background (I'm relatively new to the area). Contented myself he was popular / worked hard at his job and was photographed/associated more regularly with the SNP than other parties which gained him my 2.
# cardrossian 2012-05-04 07:28
If there were no party politics in local government then this man would be elected or not on the basis of his own performance. But there will always be rogues
# Embradon 2012-05-04 09:31
Argyll and Bute is run by "independents" and it is a shambles. Many of them are closet Tories who know they would not get elected if they came out
# Dundonian West 2012-05-04 10:30
Agree with you re 'Independent' candidates.In times past they were Tory in all but name.
Same as 'Progressive'.
Be careful who we vote for.
SNP candidates ONLY.
Personally,I wouldn't place a vote of any number at the door of ANY of them.
This is a time of great change,and ALL the unionist/anti-independence cabal must be aavoided.
Leave them with no political credibility until independence is signed AND delivered.
# Des58 2012-05-04 06:47
Good local goverment in the Highlands with the Independents?
Under Libdem/Indy/Lab rule powers have been centralised in Inverness. Highland Council is seen as the enemy by many small communities in the Highlands.
Let's hope there are enough SNP members to change that when the dust settles later today
# george davie 2012-05-04 06:56
Quoting cardrossian:
Party politics should have no place in local government. Party politics are detrimental to local government. While I hope that the SNP wallop Labour, I would hope that in an independent Scotland we can move away from this disingenious system. Take a lesson from the Highlands where an area bigger than Wales returns many independents and in general gives good local government.

Be careful what you wish for.

In Angus the independents formed what they called the "Angus Alliance". This was basically a group of people who banded together with the sole aim of stopping the SNP from gaining power. i.e. "Anybody but the SNP"

At this election it has been extremely interesting to watch former Labour / Con / Lib supporters standing as "Independents."

Their campaign has again been focused upon three things.

1. Personal attacks on nationalist candidates.

2. Seeking common cause with disaffected Unionists.

3. Promising huge capital projects that they know they can't deliver.

In the main I would be extremely suspicious of anyone standing as an "Independent" having witnessed how they have conducted themselves in my part of the country.
# cardrossian 2012-05-04 07:14
I can do no better than quote from Keith Aitken in yesterdays Daily Express
"Independence for Scotland. The London coalition and its austerity programme. Gay marriage. A first report card for Johann Lamont/Ruth Davidson/Willie Rennie. Just some of the things that todays elections are NOT about. These are national, not local issues. Nor for that matter are the elections about merging services, or outsourcing or downsizing".

We don't know yet what our results are in Scotland but I can't believe that all the councillors in England who lost their seats (regardless of their party affiliations) were bad councillors. How can it be good for local government if an extremely good local politician can lose his place because he happened to be a member of an unpopular national party.

As I said, party politics are not good for local government.
# Caadfael 2012-05-04 09:41
The sooner these tories in disguise disappear the better.
And take their damn gaudy rag of a "county flag" with them! What a dog's breakfast thon is!
# Robabody 2012-05-04 08:31
Hear, Hear.
# alicmurray 2012-05-04 06:16
Hope SS is right and we win today particularly here in Glasgow. Interesting ad at the top of Spectator's front page for one of their events "it's time to let Scotland go" Wed 27th June Royal Geographical Society. Would quite like to attend this pity it's in London though.
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 06:45
Moray council reporting 38% turnout on average. BBC says thats really low but I'd disagree for a standalone council election.
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 07:16
Seems the turnout for England + Wales is looking like 32%. Let's hope we can get a better turnout in Scotland with good SNP gains. That would make it difficult for Labour to blame SNP gains on a low turnout as it would mean the same for their own gains in E+W...
# chicmac 2012-05-04 09:13
OTOH SNP gains with a low turn out would be an even bigger indictment of Labour leadership.
# Aucheorn 2012-05-04 08:32
Rural Polling Station in Moray; Votes cast 48.8% ( 10 Candidates - 4 Seats ).
# mealer 2012-05-04 06:52
When can we expect results?
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 07:05
Counting (electronic) should now be underway across the country. Results will come in throughout the day.
# xyz 2012-05-04 07:16
I wonder where did they get these machines, and are they reliable? .. What's to stop them being 'fixed'?
# xyz 2012-05-04 07:21
Logica ...

I suppose they have an interest in the count being correct, as they'll want more contracts.. .. but .....
# Leswil 2012-05-04 07:23
Don't hear them complaining about BIAS media coverage.
Watched BBC Newsnight last night, a utterly contemptible with a non stop tirade against Alex Salmond, McWhirter spewing out bile along with Brewer and the other guy.
No SNP representation just a witch hunt.
HOW CAN THEY DENY CLAIMS OF BIAS, the BBC is breaching all the rules and no one can contain them. They are no longer credible. Also front page of yesterday's Scotsman ( aka "THE UNIONIST TIMES" ) was equally as bad. There is no rules now, we have to realise this, no one will help us, we need to use everything we can to counter them. Perhaps the European Court of Justice, if that is a possibility.
Otherwise I suggest we start with a PETITION against the BBC enmasse.
# Mei 2012-05-04 07:58
There's a Demo at the end of this month.
# Leswil 2012-05-04 08:30
That is good to hear, just hope it is well attended.
However, don't you think that a organised petition that is big enough could not so easily be ignored.( Newsnetscotland perhaps ) Petitions can always be referenced to, whereas a demo is unlikely to be. But both would be very good.
# Caadfael 2012-05-04 09:44
Make sure STV are there!, Aljazeerah .. anyone got contacts?
# Macart 2012-05-04 07:59
Leswil, I'm still waiting to hear from anyone why the politician and party with the least amount of personal contact with NI and Murdoch should have to answer any questions or why it should be the SGs responsibility to institute any inquiry. I mean don't they think the Leveson inquiry did a good enough job, were they somehow remiss in the execution of their duties?
# Leswil 2012-05-04 08:25
Well, if they were not a bitter labour people, I am sure they would agree that you are right. However as things are it is any port in a storm for them, ethics are out of the window.
# Macart 2012-05-04 09:58
What ethics? :D

This is going to come round and bite them eventually. You can't make accusations forever without providing proof of foul play at some point. As far as I can see, and I may be hugely wrong, nobody has produced anything at all. Am I missing something here?
# RTP 2012-05-04 07:59
Also saw it and thought MacWhirter is becoming a very bitter man he I thought was more fair than others not now.
# A_Scottish_Voice 2012-05-04 08:46
Have to agree. I only watched a few minutes of the programme. That was enough. It was clear to me, and it looks like to most people, that Iain Macwhirter looks quite desperate and slightly pathetic; almost as if he has some sort of gripe or chip on his shoulder about something.

The political tactics that the BBC are quite clearly employing against Alex Salmond and the SNP are so blatant, as to be obviously to even the causal observer. Given that there are over two years until the referendum, to continue in this vain for that length of time will only give the Scottish public the opportunity to come to view that most of us already have, which is that the BBC are unfit for the purpose that they are paid. And that might not be a bad thing.
# Dundonian West 2012-05-04 10:38
The BBC is EXACTLY what it says on the label.
Pay your licence fee,and thereafter it's tough luck!
I have Virgin Cable TV,and for the last couple of months have stayed with UK Newsnight until 11.20pm. by keying in 852 into the Virgin box.
Stops the unionist twaddle from Scotland on 102 dead in it's tracks.
# proudscot 2012-05-04 10:38
Quoting Leswil:
Don't hear them complaining about BIAS media coverage.
Watched BBC Newsnight last night, a utterly contemptible with a non stop tirade against Alex Salmond, McWhirter spewing out bile along with Brewer and the other guy.
No SNP representation just a witch hunt.
HOW CAN THEY DENY CLAIMS OF BIAS, the BBC is breaching all the rules and no one can contain them. They are no longer credible. Also front page of yesterday's Scotsman ( aka "THE UNIONIST TIMES" ) was equally as bad. There is no rules now, we have to realise this, no one will help us, we need to use everything we can to counter them. Perhaps the European Court of Justice, if that is a possibility.
Otherwise I suggest we start with a PETITION against the BBC enmasse.

Thoroughly agree with you Leswil. I too watched Brewer's Newsnight hatefest against Alex Salmond. He even finished by exhibititng only ONE newspaper headline for the following day - the Scotsman (of course!) quoting Willie Rennie's disgraceful slur on Sir Peter Housden, Scotland's top civil servant, claiming he is an "SNP lackey".

So much for fair and balanced reporting from our Britnat Bullsh*t Corporation.
# Louperdowg 2012-05-04 07:59
With regards to low turnout, if newspapers were fulfilling their proper role in society in informing and disseminating information, we would have leaders and articles in the run up to the elections proclaiming their importance.

Instead, we get a stream of artificially induced bile and invective directed at Alex Salmond, solely on the basis that that's what the Unionist spin doctors ordered.

Further, they talk down the elections (when they talk about them at all), thus reducing the electorate's interest in the first place.

Hopefully, despite it all, the SNP will prevail today but I am realistic enough to realise that not all will go to plan and any setbacks for the SNP, perceived or otherwise, will be pounced on by our frothing 'journalists'.
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 08:12
The unionist parties have been hoping for a low turnout, even almost actively promoting it by talking about it incessantly. Add in the continous smear against AS, the complete absence of polls in Scotland ahead of the elections, the half empty halls at Lib/Con/Lab conferences, declining party memberships (with SNP rising)....

The atmosphere of unionist fear is so thick you could cut it with a knife.

In what scraps I could grab from Scotland subsets in polls I saw nothing to suggest that this will not be a good day for the SNP and a bad one for the unionist parties.

Fingers crossed, touch wood and all that..
# Louperdowg 2012-05-04 08:19
I have just revisited the Iain McWhirter comment from yesterday.

Now, I should of course be stressing here that local elections are supposed to be about local issues: refuse services, potholes, local sleaze, trams and so on. But they rarely are. The electoral system anyway makes it very difficult to vote on local issues because PR generates shifting coalitions. How do Edinburghers express their fury at the trams fiasco when all the main parties are implicated one way or another, with the exception of the Tories perhaps? In the absence of elected mayors – identifiable, buck-stopping civic personalities like Ken and Boris in London – local voters tend to use their votes to pass a verdict on the state of the national government.

I didn't notice that disengenous statement about Edinburgh Trams the first time around.

It would appear from that statement that its the SNP's fault not the Tories so feel free to punish them at local election level.

Shame on you, Iain.
# Dundonian West 2012-05-04 10:47
"Shame on you, Iain."
Writing for a unionist/anti-independence newspaper,in the guise of balanced political journalism.
I just swith him off now,on the rare occasions he pops up.
They don't like to be ignored.
# Marga B 2012-05-04 09:29
"complete absence of polls in Scotland ahead of the elections," - Skier, do you think that polls were taken and not published, or just not taken? What you say makes scary reading.
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 09:42
There was a yougov taken (I took part) but not published...
# Marga B 2012-05-04 10:04
Doesn't the Electoral Commission have any say on polls? From what you say, it seems public money was spent (yougov) and the results instead of being published were suppressed.
# gus1940 2012-05-04 15:36
If polls had been published instances of ballot rigging would stand out.
# Union City Blues 2012-05-04 08:55
Louperdog, You have hit the nail on the head, until the media report the facts rather than create scandals the lack of interest can only get worse.
# Jim Johnston 2012-05-04 08:06
Hi Leswil,
I agree entirely about the anti-Independence Newsnight and the BBC in particular.

I was thinking exactly the same thoughts as yourself.

Personnaly, I just dont pay to be brainwashed by the BBC or "Scottish" MSM. (So I accept that I don't have a say in the anti-Independence dross they spew out.)

Russia Today and other international outlets give a far more accurate and balanced coverage of any subject you can think of. All available free on the internet.
# chicmac 2012-05-04 09:24
The one that really annoyed me was the inclusion of another mini-knock-umentary on our kids by Ms Bradford in the pre election Distorting Scotland.

All the more so when I discovered what I believe to be the reason for it in the form of this mainly positive WHO report published in the Scotsman.
# Leswil 2012-05-04 10:07
Fact is the Russian media has no credibility either as in the Russian elections they behaved just like the BBC.
However, when it comes to the UK, they are only too happy to look at what is happening to us and point out the problems.
So whatever the reason I still welcome that.
It is a pity the SUN has been castrated who are now too scared to talk seriously about politics in any meaningful way. However I do hope they bounce back to give labour a left hook!!
# rodmac 2012-05-04 08:09
I thought they really excelled themselves on BBC Newsnight Scotland last night.

# H Scott 2012-05-04 08:24
Labour are doing very well in England and Wales so it will be interesting to compare how Labour in Scotland fare.
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 08:29
They are only doing well because the coalition is doing terribly. Even the Tories are losing voters to UKIP!
# Marga B 2012-05-04 09:32
Interesting, so it's come to that - Labour as protest vote. A rather soft position for one of the 2 "main parties".
# proudscot 2012-05-04 10:48
Quoting Marga B:
Interesting, so it's come to that - Labour as protest vote. A rather soft position for one of the 2 "main parties".

Mischievous point - I wonder if the SNP had put up candidates in the North of England constituencies, how much of the anti-Coalition protest votes they might have attracted. As it was, the only "protest" vote available was either Labour or the far right parties of UKIP, BNP or EDL.
# tartanfever 2012-05-04 08:34
It will indeed. Tories and Lib Dems south of the border are claiming it's the usual mid term council elections in which the govt. of the day always take a pasting - and thats true, it happens a lot.

Interesting that the Labour gains in Wales have come against calls to 'send a message to Cameron in Westminster' and a general negative campaign trying to force national issues rather than local.

Can't wait until all those labour councils start increasing the council tax next year - thats going to be a huge bonus for us up here in gaining support for independence.
# Marga B 2012-05-04 08:36
In the Guardian: "Plaid under its new leader, Leanne Wood, suffered disappointments , .... Plaid activists argued they were the victims of a UK-wide move towards Labour."
# Training Day 2012-05-04 08:37
Labour are only doing 'well' in England because there is no other alternative to the coalition for many voters down South. In Scotland we have that alternative.

As for Newsnight last night, surely a good sign. The reduction of the 'news' to the continuation of a protracted smear campaign, abetted by the increasingly unhinged MacWhirter. Tactics which reek of desperation and fear.
# balgayboy 2012-05-04 08:51
Quoting Training Day:
Labour are only doing 'well' in England because there is no other alternative to the coalition for many voters down South. In Scotland we have that alternative.

As for Newsnight last night, surely a good sign. The reduction of the 'news' to the continuation of a protracted smear campaign, abetted by the increasingly unhinged MacWhirter. Tactics which reek of desperation and fear.

Agree, the people south of the border have very little alternative of choice between blue or red tory. They must get quite bored with this never ending circus. Good that there is an excellent alternative in Scotland.
# Embradon 2012-05-04 09:47
I used to have a lot of time for McWhirter but he has completely lost the plot over this one.
He obviously has a visceral hatred of Murdoch which is badly affecting his judgement.

I despise the Murdoch empire too, but his papers here are no worse than any of the others and substantially better than most.
C.F those owned by the Barclays, the Pornographer, Johnstone Press and bottom of the rotting pile - the Daily Mail.
# sid 2012-05-04 08:46
once again we have the BBC allowing punters to call the first minister a dictator unchallenged and no comment made.
isn't it great kaye is back allowing any comment to be made with no comeback.
# pa_broon74 2012-05-04 11:07

We also had Gary Robertson telling us that the trams fiasco is the fault of the SNP and libdems, no mention of Labour at all. He neglected to mention the facts of the matter and only at the end did he in passing say the minority SNP gov tried to scrap it.

Really disengenuous stuff.
# lumilumi 2012-05-04 11:26
This is the type of spin and lies that makes me really angry. Probably many other people as well, putting them off politics. No wonder voter turnout is down. Though, on a more positive note, it seems that overall turnout is higher in Scotland than in England/Wales.
# GrassyKnollington 2012-05-04 08:49
I assume with the heavy emphasis on the poor turnout in Scotland that England and Wales had a great turn out.

A google search doesn't appear to generate too many "record low turn out for England feared" headlines but the Scotland News has plenty along these lines.

As for Newsnicht and the cosy triumvirate of Hassan, McWhirter and Brewer obviously looking for a route to let them love Labour again whilst promulgating "the SNP's a dictatorship" line, nothing new there. The Scotsman headline was something else though.

Have you ever heard of a civil servant being derided as a Labour lackey or a Tory lackey?

Me neither.

Beyond irony that the " lackey" accusation should come from Willie Rennie.
# Dundonian West 2012-05-04 10:52
"cosy triumvirate of Hassan, McWhirter and Brewer".
Must be a term for three unionist males of a certain age,all chattering in unison?
# Exile 2012-05-04 11:44
chattering asses? (cf. chattering classes)
# Dundonian West 2012-05-04 12:29
I luv(sic) that one!
# proudscot 2012-05-04 12:20
Quoting Dundonian West:
"cosy triumvirate of Hassan, McWhirter and Brewer".
Must be a term for three unionist males of a certain age,all chattering in unison?

# cardrossian 2012-05-04 08:54
All these arguments about local-vs-national politics would disappear under the SDA proposals for local government. No party politics or politicians in local government is the base line

Independents for Independence is my mantra
# Wullie B 2012-05-04 08:55
You wouldnt have thought there was elections in Portree yesterday, a severe lack of leaflets ,and apart from the SNP councillor Ian Renwick , the only other leaflets I recieved was from an independent and a Lib Dem who by all accounts is not going to be re elected due to several things and voters being disenchanted , although speaking toone of thepeople in the election station , there was a steady stream of voters but not so many younger ones which might cause problems as this area has alway up until the last Scottish Elections been Lib Dem ,which they lost to SNP, but the candidates for the Portree Ward was from the top 1 SNP ,4 Independents, 1 Libdem,1 Labour and 1 Con ,so made it easy for voting as that was the basic layout for the voting slip
# Seagetagrip 2012-05-04 09:03
The Herald, which I despise, is, however running an Election 2012 Blog.
They reported at 0958 that SNP recorded gains in Ward 1 Stirling
# xyz 2012-05-04 09:07
and ward 2 .. yes! I'm following on twitter @theSNP
# Louperdowg 2012-05-04 09:12
9:55: Tom Gordon has been chatting to politicians at the count in Glasgow. "Ex Labour MSP tells me 'We've won the campaign'. Probable translation: 'We've lost the council'"
# Aplinal 2012-05-04 09:51
Interesting that the Herald is using the same picture to head up its blog as the Guardian. Conspiracy theorists take note ;-)
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 09:08
Osborne's ham fisted budget has been a gift to Labour in England and Wales. It almost makes Milliband seem electable. It will be interesting to see if any of that bubble has drifted across the border. I would be surprised if it hasn't solidified some of the softer traditional Labour vote. It might result in not a lot of change in the Scottish councils. If the SNP make gains then Lamont is going to be under pressure from London when everywhere else in the UK is on the up.
# H Scott 2012-05-04 09:09
My point about comparing Labour's performance in Scotland to England & Wales is about discerning how much divergence there is politically. The SNP in Scotland are in the same position as Conservatives and Lib-Dems in England i.e. the government. In England and Wales the government parties are being 'punished' and even Plaid are losing seats. If Scotland voted the same as England and Wales then Labour would make big gains and the SNP would be making losses. Of course our wonderful media never point out the SNP's position as an incumbent government liable to be 'punished'!
# Leswil 2012-05-04 09:14
I was looking through some Scotsman archive postings this morning ( sad eh!) however, I found this one which I found to be very good ( surprised it is actually there!) Read it here
# RTP 2012-05-04 09:32
Just caught a bit of BBC24 about Aberdeen and how the North East was Salmond's fiefdom Aberdeen was nearly bankrupt before the last local elections but no mention that it was LABOUR who nearly made it bankrupt.
# xyz 2012-05-04 09:45
Yes I noticed that too .. also the BBC prat said something along the lines of .. 'local councillors have felt the heel of Alex Salmond' .. disgusting smearing propaganda
# tartanfever 2012-05-04 09:35
I'm sure many are following the results as they happen on the BBC website, for those that aren't here's the link where you can follow live texts and updates:

In terms of TV coverage, from what I can see there are programmes this afternoon on BBC2 (interspersed between bouts of snooker) starting at 12pm.
# balgayboy 2012-05-04 09:40
Quoting tartanfever:
I'm sure many are following the results as they happen on the BBC website, for those that aren't here's the link where you can follow live texts and updates:

In terms of TV coverage, from what I can see there are programmes this afternoon on BBC2 (interspersed between bouts of snooker) starting at 12pm.

Checked it out and I noticed it was open for comments! opportunities there to let the BBC know one's thoughts!
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 09:50
Beeb and Prof Curtice seems to be talking up Labour - not really a surprise I suppose :)
# gus1940 2012-05-04 15:44
And our wonderful unbiased BBC have been using that dynamic duo from The Scotsman - Maddox and Barnes.
# Seagetagrip 2012-05-04 09:38
Tartan Fever

i think Herald is slicker. Maybe some kind technocrat would do a link on my ageing behalf?
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 09:44
This is the Herald page

I see the SNP's Annette Valentine got most 1 votes in Motherwell West

Difficult to tell how solid Labour's vote has remained yet but there is no sign of a Coalition style collapse for the SNP either....not that one was expected, this is a different show altogether.
# Seagetagrip 2012-05-04 09:46
Thank you Jim1320!
# Christian_Wright 2012-05-04 09:52
I thought MacWhirter and Hassan made a case for their side in this Murdoch kabuki. The failure was that of the BBC to provide two other pundits of the other persuasion to put the counter argument.

It is almost invariably the case that if there is pro independence, or pro SNP, or pro Salmond, representation at all on Newsnicht, Daily Politics, et al, (pick your poison dependent on their angle of attack), that spokesman is outnumbered two or three to one.

I think that last night's offering was a disgrace which seriously gives the lie to the BBC protestations of innocence whenever it is charged with bias.

The power of the BBC, and the danger it presents to the quest for Scottish self determination, is that it is believed by the Great Unwashed. It is deemed neutral and fair by the average punter.

What needs to be prioritized is not offering counterpoint to every dingbat charge the opposition dreams up, but in neutralizing the effectiveness of the conduit through which it is disseminated.

A lie unchallenged is a lie believed.

There is a crying need for a coordinated and concerted effort to undermine the risible notion of BBC impartiality, by drawing the attention of the electorate to it, again and again, and again, until it is inculcated into the public consciousness.

It is clear now that this is the strategy of the opposition WRT the First Minister. Bring down Salmond, and you cripple the independence movement.

While each attack in itself presents no existential threat, the constant stream of attacks, day after, week, after month, after year, will take its toll and serve to destroy the First Minister's credibility and blacken his reputation (or so they believe).

The opposition cannot possibly hope to achieve this without the complicity of the press and other media, united in common cause, in pursuit of that goal.

The central pillar of that unholy alliance is the state broadcasting system - the BBC. We cannot hope to unstick the Beeb and force change in its institutional position on independence, but we CAN go far to ameliorating its toxic influence on the outcome of the plebiscite on independence, by hammering home the message of its political corruption.
# EphemeralDeception 2012-05-04 10:08
I have sent an email to the Scottish Minister with Media and broadcasting in their portfolio.
(Fiona Hyslop MSP).

I have expressed the growing concern about the impartiality of the BBC and noted that despite that the BBC/Broadcasting is reserved to Westminster I asked if they/she considers that the BBC in Scotland provides fair and balanced political coverage.
(I also cited suspension of blogging uniquely in Scotland)

They have acknowledged receipt and I am waitng a reply (Since 24/04).

If the SNP Government does not reply or considers that the BBC are impartial, then there is very little we can do.

If they do believe there is a case to make then we need to lobby to get them to make such a statement, overtly, to get official responses from the BBC and increase awareness.

Note: I also mentioned the BBC blogs because it impacts all users across the service not just SNP and as a government of all it represents a lower level of service compared to the rest of the UK. Then couple this with the huge need for debate in Scotland over our constitutional future. Stopping the service at this very time points to information manipulation, bias and discrimination from the BBC.
# A_Scottish_Voice 2012-05-04 10:29
Very good point regarding the Scottish blogs.

They either need to reopen the Scottish ones, or close them all down. As you say this is actually a reduced service for Scottish licence payers. In effect, discrimination against Scottish people at the most important constitutional time in our history.

Maybe we need a regime change.
# chicmac 2012-05-04 11:32
I see BT is now touting his blog on the BBC live feed:

"You can also bookmark my blog on all things Scottish politics!"
# chicmac 2012-05-04 11:30
Alex has referred to the BBC as the 'British Brainwashing Corporation" in the past.IIRCC
# H Scott 2012-05-04 10:12
Absolutely agree.
# Leswil 2012-05-04 10:18
Christian, well written.
As I have said the same things until I am blue in the face. However, no one comes up with the answer, ie just who do you refer this bias to? It is all over the media,including almost every interview or article by the BBC, who we pay for!
I mentioned earlier a petition of complaint to whoever will listen, I think thousands would sign it if it gets out there, could be too big to ignore.
Or am I wrong?
# Christian_Wright 2012-05-04 11:23
Yes it would be helpful if it gets the issue in front of the electorate.

I think youtube could serve as another effective and inexpensive platform if used to launch a series of short, humorous videos that make the point simply and clearly.

The BBC seminar wherein Andrew Neil revealed himself a card-carrying member of the angry wing of the Nasty Party, implacably opposed to any notion of Scottish self determination, provides us a ready made ordinance, to get the thing going.

That tirade of his could easily be chopped and interspersed by/with BBC denials of bias to produce and explosive effect. If even a single video were to go viral - the impact of the publicity reaching the public consciousness could be invaluable.

Incomprehensibl y, some have discounted Neil, claiming he is not a serving journo. In fact he is much more useful than that; he is an opinion-maker with three TV shows and additionally makes guest appearances on other shows and at other venues.

He is sold as an avuncular neutral pundit of considerable experience and gravitas, and he is believed. His intolerance is a perfect example the type of aggressive tumor that has matastisized to hold the Beeb in a Union-centered death grip.
# Dundonian West 2012-05-04 11:00
Start by referring to it as the 'British Broadcasting Corporation.'
Is that it's soft underbelly?
# cirsium 2012-05-04 14:15
good point. RevStu over at Wings over Scotland was highlighting the conflict of interest which the British Broadcasting Corporation has in Scotland. It will experience a cut in income when Scotland regains its independence. This explains the move from misreporting or not reporting news and blocking comment on political blogs to manufacturing news (the NATO "story").
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 09:56
Prof John Curtice says: Dunfermline in Fife also shows the Labour vote up more than the SNP vote since 2007. At the same time the Lib Dem vote is down heavily. It could be that Labour is simply regaining ground it lost in the wake of the 2006 Westminster by-election.

What does that actually mean. Are both up on 2007? 2007 was a high water mark for the SNP.
# balgayboy 2012-05-04 10:07
Quoting Jim1320:
Prof John Curtice says: Dunfermline in Fife also shows the Labour vote up more than the SNP vote since 2007. At the same time the Lib Dem vote is down heavily. It could be that Labour is simply regaining ground it lost in the wake of the 2006 Westminster by-election.

What does that actually mean. Are both up on 2007? 2007 was a high water mark for the SNP.

The same man was left with egg on his face in 2011
# DavieB 2012-05-04 10:01
Gain for SNP on Johann Lamont's home turf: congratulations to David McDonald and Syed S Jaffri in Greater Pollok
# Old Smokey 2012-05-04 10:07
I see Orkney have completed their returns
and the number of so called independents has been cut in half from 21 down to 11
It doesnt say who the 'non Independents' are
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 10:13
Not sure the political map is going to look all that different after today. A few more SNP councillors and possibly a few more Labour councillors with the Coalition being the losers.
# DavieB 2012-05-04 10:14
John Jamieson 2nd SNP councillor for East Dunbartonshire Council.
# balgayboy 2012-05-04 10:14
BBC UK website seems to be rather slow with it's Scottish Election results.....could it be there are substantial SNP gains?
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 10:18
Unlikely - STV desn't really give the wild swings that you get with FPTP. The Beeb are just a bit slow.
# DavieB 2012-05-04 10:18
At last some good news for David Cameron. Well.....David Cameron (SNP) who has just been elected in Aberdeen.

Congratulations to Sandy Taylor in Argyll and Bute: SNP GAIN
# DavieB 2012-05-04 10:21
Ward 3 Fraserburgh and District: Elected Brian Topping (SNP); Charles Buchan (SNP); Ian Tait (IND); Michael Watt (IND)
# Wullie B 2012-05-04 10:47
Quoting DavieB:
Ward 3 Fraserburgh and District: Elected Brian Topping (SNP); Charles Buchan (SNP); Ian Tait (IND); Michael Watt (IND)

The usual "suspects" Councillor Topping does a good job in the Broch , and the two independents have also done good stuff ,I have no views on the other SNP councillor as he wasnt evident when I stayed there
# Marga B 2012-05-04 10:23
Seen on BBC Scotland blog:

"Analysis John Curtice Professor of politics at Strathclyde University

"A second Aberdeen result shows only a very small swing from Labour to SNP since 2007. However, a second result in Glasgow shows a notable swing from Labour to the SNP though not on a scale likely to deliver the SNP a majority. Still there are tentative signs that perhaps the SNP advance in Glasgow might prove stronger than elsewhere in Scotland."


"A second result in Fife, this time in Glenrothes, actually shows a decline in SNP support while Labour's support is well up. Glasgow apart, one might even begin to describe the results we've had in so far as remarkably disappointing for the SNP, at least so far as the party's objective was to end up with a bigger lead over Labour than the very narrow outcome that occurred in 2007."
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 10:27
LOL but immediately counters it with a negative for the SNP in the next blog by saying they won't get as big a lead over Labour as they hoped. He's just being balanced.

If the SNP finish today as the biggest party and make gains after all the crap thrown at them over the last three or four weeks they will have done really well as a party in power...unlike the Coalition in England and Wales.
# DavieB 2012-05-04 10:24
Gains for SNP across the country, in Angus, Stirling, Glasgow, South Ayrshire, Highland, among others

I make it 14 SNP gains so far
# Marga B 2012-05-04 10:24
Glenrothes again (Herald):

"11.08am: Labour have made an encouraging start in Fife, with another gain in Glenrothes Central and Thornton, this time from the SNP. Two Labour candidates, Ian Crichton and Ian Sloan both returned, along with Ross Vettraino of the SNP. This reverses the make-up of seats in the last election."
# DavieB 2012-05-04 10:27
SNP gain in Kirriemuir & Dean, well done Iain Gaul and Jeanette Gaul in Angus.
# chicmac 2012-05-04 11:40
Aye well done Iain and Jeanette in oor ward.
# Caadfael 2012-05-04 12:17
Grand, hope the rest follow suit!
Well done indeed!
# scotswhahae 2012-05-04 12:45
Quoting DavieB:
SNP gain in Kirriemuir & Dean, well done Iain Gaul and Jeanette Gaul in Angus.

Congrats Ian & Jeanette
# DavieB 2012-05-04 10:29
Strathmartine ward result - Stewart Hunter (SNP) John Alexander (SNP), Kevin Keenan (Labour) and Ian Borthwick (IND)
# DavieB 2012-05-04 10:30
Again, no change in Pollokshields: 1 LAB, 1 SNP & Glasgow's lone Tory sneaks back in...
# DavieB 2012-05-04 10:33
Well done to Patricia Gowans in Elgin City North. SNP gain in Moray
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 10:42
Contrary to what was expected before today, it looks as though Labour's performance in Scotland is not going to be wildly divergent from that south of the border.

Prof Curtice again

It would be helpful if the Beeb actually had a seats won/lost table to see what he is basing this on because although Labour holding up quite well in their heartlands I don't see them taking seats off the SNP in their heartlands which is what Labour have done in England.

Are they going to paint not doing as badly as expected and coming second as a crushing victory?
# Marga B 2012-05-04 11:02
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 11:09
# Wullie B 2012-05-04 10:52
147: John Curtice Professor of politics at Strathclyde University

"A fourth Glasgow result shows a large swing to the SNP of just the kind they would need to win overall control. It is certainly beginning to look as though Glasgow is going to be one of the better stories for the SNP in Scotland today."

Well done the SNP
# jafurn 2012-05-04 10:54
1147: John Curtice Professor of politics at Strathclyde University "A fourth Glasgow result shows a large swing to the SNP of just the kind they would need to win overall control. It is certainly beginning to look as though Glasgow is going to be one of the better stories for the SNP in Scotland today."
# Seagetagrip 2012-05-04 10:55
1147 and Curtice is showing signs of panic in Glasgow. Maybe he will leave the studio early?
# fweir 2012-05-04 10:56
John Curtice Professor of politics at Strathclyde University

"A fourth Glasgow result shows a large swing to the SNP of just the kind they would need to win overall control. It is certainly beginning to look as though Glasgow is going to be one of the better stories for the SNP in Scotland today."

Curtice's "opinion" is swinging more than the votes at the moment.

If SNP take Glasgow Lamont's shoogely Peg will look a little looser that ever!
# jafurn 2012-05-04 10:56
A good day to bury sinister news? Gov. threaten independence of Leveson.
# millie 2012-05-04 18:36
Re: Leveson-
Core-participant status has been now been granted to David Cameron, Nick Clegg, Jeremy Hunt and four other UK Cabinet Ministers.

Will this also be granted to Alex Salmond ???
# jafurn 2012-05-04 10:57
Andrew Black Political reporter, BBC Scotland While there's no definitive picture in Scotland as yet, there are inital signs that voters have turned away from the two coalition parties, the Tories and Lib Dems, which is what seems to be happening in England. There are also indications the vote has gone to the SNP and Labour, meaning the Nationalists may not have made the dent in the Labour vote across Scotland that they were hoping for. Things could be going well for the SNP in Glasgow, though.
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 11:08
This could be explained by the non-Glasgow areas having woken up to Labour long ago, and therefore there being less scope for big moves towards the SNP in these areas.

Perhaps Glasgow, is finally falling into line with the rest of Scotland?

Curtice just opens his mouth and lets his belly rumble, by the way.
# lumilumi 2012-05-04 11:21
A good observation, TE

(OT: I used to call my, now sadly deceased, cat 'Miss Triangular Ears'! :O)
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 13:37
My favourite feature of the cat, along with whiskers, tail, purr, their INDEPENDENCE, beauty, grace.......
# lumilumi 2012-05-04 14:01
Finnish spitzes (our national dog) also have trinagular ears, along with beautiful red fur and nice curved tails. No purr or whiskers or grace, though. And cats definitely win on the INDEPENDENCE stakes. The Finnish coat of arms has a lion rampant - a bit like Scotland.
# Louperdowg 2012-05-04 11:00
Apart from Inverness, have there been any SNP losses?
# xyz 2012-05-04 11:12
Irene Ogilvie (SNP) out in Forres (Moray) but Aaron Mclean (SNP) in, also in Forres
# xyz 2012-05-04 11:21
David Stewart (SNP) out in Heldon & Laich. Moray, but Carolle Ralph SNP in, also in Heldon & Laich.
# balgayboy 2012-05-04 11:04
keep clicking on BBC UK website Council results from Scotland yet and it's past midday?
# jafurn 2012-05-04 11:05
1159: John Curtice Professor of politics at Strathclyde University "First result from Edinburgh shows the SNP up far more than Labour in the wake of a substantial collapse in the Lib Dem vote."
# jafurn 2012-05-04 11:15
SNP vote increases 7.8% in #Stirling - first city to declare in Scotland and #SNP becomes largest party #sc12
# balbeggie 2012-05-04 11:15
It seems all 16 SNP candidates elected in Dundee.
# Dundonian West 2012-05-04 11:17
Great news for Dundee.
# balgayboy 2012-05-04 11:20
Quoting Dundonian West:
Great news for Dundee.

yup, let us move on from this to help the people of the city and ultimately to an Independent Scotland. Well done the people of Dundee.
# patrickotic 2012-05-04 11:30
Quoting balgayboy:
Quoting Dundonian West:
Great news for Dundee.

yup, let us move on from this to help the people of the city and ultimately to an Independent Scotland. Well done the people of Dundee.

Proud of Dundee :-) My home town !
# lumilumi 2012-05-04 11:18
Copied from the BBC Scottish council elections live thingie:

Kezia Dugdale MSP tweets: Lets be honest - this electronic counting malarkey takes all the fun and drama out of the count #edelect

Pure Labour. Just have to put a negative slant on anything and everything! :-D

Exciting times. Keeping my fingers crossed for SNP - though it doesn't seem to be like the landslide last year. However, for a government party to gain votes is quite good.
# jafurn 2012-05-04 11:30
12:25: Some Labour councillors are starting to predict they will gain an overall majority in Glasgow, as the SNP struggle.
# chicmac 2012-05-04 11:44
John "the truth is" Curtice: "These results are going to be a disappointment to the SNP"

Party in government gains seats, is NOT the normal political script.

What is that guy on?
# jafurn 2012-05-04 11:47
John Curtice Professor of politics at Strathclyde University "With detailed results from 28 wards that have been collected by the BBC now available the average change in vote for the four main parties is as follows -

LABOUR - (+7)
SNP - (+5)
CON - (-3)
LIB DEM - (-9)
These numbers represent a much smaller increase in SNP support on 2007 than the party achieved in last year's Scottish Parliament elections. Indeed, they could well mean that Labour end up as slightly the larger party across Scotland as a whole. Meanwhile, what is clear is that the results in Scotland for the Lib Dems are just as bad as in the rest of the UK, as well as in Scotland last year, while the Conservatives look as though they are going to suffer yet another rebuff north of the border."
# daveniz 2012-05-04 11:52
love it alex salmond quote "
the Tories and lib dems complain they
only lost council seats because there in government well the SNP have been in government 5 years and are gaining
seats " lol
# Aplinal 2012-05-04 11:56
Glasgow returns to 'default' mode. Shame for all the residents of that great city. makes you wonder just WHAT Labour (don't) have to do to get thrown out.
# Woodside 2012-05-04 12:01
Quoting Aplinal:
Glasgow returns to 'default' mode. Shame for all the residents of that great city. makes you wonder just WHAT Labour (don't) have to do to get thrown out.

The voters of Glasgow obviously seem perfectly happy to live in a state of poverty and social decay.

It would be interesting to find out what proportion of the half million postal ballots came from Glasgow. That many postal ballots worries me and as a Judge said it is a system open to fraud and abuse on an industrial scale.
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 12:04
I don't get this. We have heard that the SNP gains in Glasgow are bigger than elsewhere, but now it's a bad result for the SNP in Glasgow. Which one is it?

I wouldn't put anything past Labour in Glasgow. They simply cannot be trusted with anything and their tentacles are into everything.
# Aplinal 2012-05-04 12:08
The latest results mean SNP can not win an overall majority. BUT, I guess there is still some possibility that they increase their share, and number of Councillors. Glasgow was always a big ask in one go, but I am saddened that it seems Labour might be the largest party.

I may be a cynic, but I consider all the "Glasgow first" Councillors to be proxy-Labour anyway.

OK, let's not predict and wait for the final figures.
# Marga B 2012-05-04 12:58
Too right, Alpinal. The aggrieved voices at the split went silent too quickly.
# A_Scottish_Voice 2012-05-04 12:06
I cannot believe Labours vote is holding up.

Is it posible to get a breakdown of the voting results showing the percentage of postal votes for each party?
# Leswil 2012-05-04 12:08
Postal votes need to be scrutinised if anything looks suspicious.
Labour will do ANYTHING to keep power in Glasgow.
# balgayboy 2012-05-04 12:21
Quoting Leswil:
Postal votes need to be scrutinised if anything looks suspicious.
Labour will do ANYTHING to keep power in Glasgow.

I hope it's not true but if so, that the people who did vote for these charlatans realize their choice, meanwhile the rest of Scotland moves on. I just hope one day hopefully they realise what they voted for and bequeathed to their children and grandchildren.
# westie7 2012-05-04 12:22
Thats a bit of a utopian vision considering the "How ma mither voted" votes today
# Training Day 2012-05-04 12:09
Given that there were no polls in the run up to these elections, only older ones showing the SNP well ahead in UKGE and Holyrood intentions, what could explain Labour's vote holding up?
# Aplinal 2012-05-04 12:13
Four weeks of unremittingly biased muck-spreading by our "objective" media?
# Training Day 2012-05-04 12:17
If that is true the media will see it as vindication of their fear and smear strategy, and ramp it up accordingly in the run-up to the referendum.
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 12:14
Wait until we have all the results - or at least most of them. What is happening is like what happened in England - the Tories and the Libs are suffering. However, in Scotland, Labour are not cashing in alone - the SNP are too. It remains to be seen who will benefit the most, but it should be the SNP.
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 12:15
Up until a few weeks ago Labour were behind in England. It was the complete mismanagement of the Budget that has shot the Tories in both feet and given Labour a boost. I think some of that boost has rubbed off here too and bolstered their core vote. The SNP as the party in power for the last five years might, if people were disgruntled, lose seats but they appear to have gained too. So the SNP remain strong and the Labour has consolidated at the expense of the Coalition. I don't think the result is all that much of a surprise to be honest.

Of course Labour have to hope the Tories remain incompetent and that Milliband be seen as a viable alternative. If neither of these happen then the softer Labour vote may crumble once again.
# Woodside 2012-05-04 12:16
Quoting Training Day:
Given that there were no polls in the run up to these elections, only older ones showing the SNP well ahead in UKGE and Holyrood intentions, what could explain Labour's vote holding up?

It might be that the Lib Dem vote has gone to Labour this time as they are die hard unionists and want to bloody the nose of the SNP.

If the SNP vote has held up, or increased then after the all out media attacks of the last few weeks then we should take that as a big positive.
# Dundonian West 2012-05-04 12:14
Good news for Labour.
Ms Lamont will be here to lead her party into the IndyRef Debate.
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 12:17
Good news too for the independence campaign if Lamont stays in her post.
# Dundonian West 2012-05-04 12:21
Labour can't get rid of her----she's now with them through thick and thin.
# Robert Louis 2012-05-04 12:28
Indeed. We need Lamont, to ensure a massive YES vote.

I do wonder how the blatant anti SNP propaganda over the last two weeks by the BBC and the MSM, will have changed some peoples minds. To my mind, it was also clearly co ordinated to ensure there was NO opportunity to expose the Labour manifesto as the bare faced lies it was. As was pointed out in the Parliament earlier this week, the liars at Labour were claiming the SNP had given the steel contracts for the Forth Bridge to China, instead of Scottish steel. (of course they omit to mention that there was no Scottish supplier who bid for the contracts, as NO Scottish steel supplier exists who can fulfil the contracts).

That blatant bare faced lying by Labour has NOT been addressed by the MSM or BBC.
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 12:32
Not forgetting that tendering rules forbid protectionist measures such as giving contracts to domestic suppliers regardless of cost (or existence of said suppliers!). I'm not sure if that applies when dealing with China though.
# Marga B 2012-05-04 14:09
I don't know, she's a "mum" giving a bloody nose to "the politicians". It's a bit like reality TV, maybe that's the comfort area normal people operate in these days.
# xyz 2012-05-04 12:17
hmm 1309:

NORTH LANARKSHIRE COUNCIL: SNP candidate Graham Russell polled 721 first preference votes compared to Peter Sullivan with 630. But under Single Transferable Vote (STV) Sullivan wins seat.
# Aplinal 2012-05-04 12:24
Yes, it's a dilemma as I actually believe that STV is a fairer system than FPTP. Sometimes you have to take the 'hit' for the wider good.

There may be an argument for changing the voting system for the council elections, particularly when there are usually smaller numbers of votes, but what this result tells us is that the SNP were not able to carry over their support to other parties first preference supporters.

For Sullivan to win on second preference he had to "out-vote" Graham Russell by 92 votes. So the question is, why did other party voters give more second choice to him, and not to the SNP. That has to be part of the analysis of these elections.
# lumilumi 2012-05-04 13:24
I'm not as well-versed in psephology as I'd wish to be, and TBH, I've never quite understood STV or its merits. It's PR, which is good, but it's very difficult for the ordinary voter in the street to work out.

The PR system that is used in local and GE in my country (a variation of open list d'Hondt) is fairly easy to understand - or maybe I just think so because I've grown up with it (?? :D)

Each party/grouping fields as many candidates as there are seats up for grabs, listed in aphabetical order and given a running number. Voters then write the number of their preferred candidate on the ballot card. (NB: the parties don't decide the party list order, the voters do!) Then the votes for each party list are counted. Whoever came first in any particular list gets all the party vote as their 'comparison figure', whoever came second gets 1/2 , whoever came third gets 1/3 and so on. Then these comparison figures are compared across all the lists (parties) and the top candidates, as per comparison figure, win the seats. This system fairly accurately reflects the popular vote, although it's a bit biased against minor parties (polling under 5% or less). Another advantage is that the parties cannot decide who they want, the voters do, which I think is a big plus.

Sorry, long post and going OT too long. I just wonder what these Scottish local election results might be like under a different PR system.

And I quite agree, FPTP is a very unfair, outdated and undemocratic system, encouraging voter apathy (but quite cushy for the career politicians who've sucked up enough to party leaders to be given "safe seats" to contest).
# westie7 2012-05-04 12:20
BBCs James Cook positively wetting his pants on twitter at GCC story so far.

This shows the blatant shameless bias is obviously accepted by the Labour voters.

What will be a positive result WILL be spun BIG time and if this is what the BBC can do for local government elections, look out 2014
# Robert Louis 2012-05-04 12:31
We need to make Newsnet Scotland even stronger, to counteract the Westminster Television corporation (BBC).

Our destiny is in our hands.

We all know the BBC will lie, and deceive, it's what they do, as they are funded by Westminster, and its management is appointed by the Tory Government.
# Leswil 2012-05-04 12:41
Yes, I agree!
# Leswil 2012-05-04 12:39
I have been singing this hymn for a long time. We have our work cut out, as this maybe the biggest battle for Scotland in it's history. Metaphorically speaking of course but it is that important to counteract the Unionist spin, lies,deceit,and whatever else fits.They are proving to be utter low lives with NO
respect for Democracy unless it is their self interest form of it.
Makes my blood boil!
# proudscot 2012-05-04 12:41
Congrats to the Labour voters in Glasgow - NOT! Keep voting for anything sporting a red rosette, and like the Tommies in the First World War, you'll continue to be "lions led by donkeys!"
# Robert Louis 2012-05-04 12:52
People are free to vote for whoever they wish, however, I do wonder why so many people in Glasgow still vote Labour considering the stink of corruption that goes to the core of Glasgow Labour council.

Oh, hang on, I remember, most people know nothing of the corruption in Glasgow Labour council, as our 'state' broadcaster chooses to make no mention of it whatsoever, despite the fact that it is based in Glasgow.

If you only watched the BBC, and believed what they told you, you too would likely think Labour were good for Glasgow.
# Marga B 2012-05-04 13:04
Curiously corruption does not seem to stop people from voting. The sense you get is of the "chip on your shoulder" voter voting for "one of us" - the SNP are too "posh". Lamont perhaps being seen as "one of us".
# lumilumi 2012-05-04 14:32
Yes, and the tragedy is that for a long, long time, few if any Labour politician has been 'one of us'. But as long as they can dupe their core voters for their own benefit, no need to change or take notice of the voters.
# admiral 2012-05-04 12:54
Quoting proudscot:
Congrats to the Labour voters in Glasgow - NOT! Keep voting for anything sporting a red rosette, and like the Tommies in the First World War, you'll continue to be "lions led by donkeys!"

I don't think sarcasm is called for. The poor people of Glasgow have been hoodwinked again by Labour promises of jam tomorrow. Wonder if they are right now carving up the ALEO directorships among themselves.

Remember the old maxim - you can fool some people some of the time...

Labour's time in Glasgow will come. Does anyone expect that GCC will be seeking to do anything to improve any of the life indicators that are so awful in Glasgow - life expectancy, health outcomes, education, housing, employment, you name it, what have Glasgow Labour ever done to improve things, what do they offer now that is so different?
# jafurn 2012-05-04 12:49
Michael Crick ‏ @MichaelLCrick
Ian Davidson, Lab MP for Glasgow SW on Glasgow results: "This is astonishing. The SNP have been well f*****!"
# Dundonian West 2012-05-04 12:53
Methinks these are the words of rambling,uncont rolled relief.
"This is astonishing," is puzzling.
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 12:57
Maybe he is easily astonished...the hard of thinking often are.
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 12:54
A stunning intellectual contribution to psephology from Mr Davidson then?

LOL he really is a bargain basement lobby fodder isn't he?
# Leswil 2012-05-04 12:55
Sounds like him right enough.
# admiral 2012-05-04 12:50
I'm not downheartened and neither should anyone else be. The difference from last year is that there is no statutory right of reply, which has given the unionists and their MSM fellow travellers free rein to spew their negative bile. As already mentioned, we have had relentless anti-SNP drivel for the last three or four weeks, which the press has gleefully reported on a totally selective basis. Despite this, the vote has held up and increased.

Once we get into the referendum campaign, things will be different.

In the meantime, a dual strategy of positively talking up Scotland's bright future AND refuting unionist negativity with facts, facts, facts should be everyone's priority.

Onwards to 2014!
# Robert Louis 2012-05-04 13:04

We now have 2 years to make sure OUR media is more powerful and diminishes the lies of the London run BBC.

It is now clear, that Scotland will need to have foreign monitors in place for the referendum, to ensure the BBC does NOT carry on with its clear propagandist role against independence and the SNP.

I might add, the SNP in my opinion need to bolster their media management team, to aggressively and permanently challenge the BBC Labour party lies.
# jafurn 2012-05-04 12:51
Elizabeth Lloyd ‏ @eliz_lloyd
So far I hear it's SNP up 32 across the country, lab on 10 and the libs down 44 #sc12 #bbcvote2012

Retweeted by Stewart Hosie
# Training Day 2012-05-04 12:51
The lesson which seems to be emerging here (a not unexpected one) is that while we face a pan-Unionist party alliance which the STV system helps to shore up, we absolutely must set about decoupling the independence issue from one party and one man (as the BBC et al are keen not to do).
# Robert Louis 2012-05-04 12:54
I think that will change, as the YES campaign will launch soon.
# Leswil 2012-05-04 12:53
latest on bbc website

SNP Councillors - 57 + 9
Labour - 33 +5
Tories - 26 -3
Lib/dem - 13 -11
# iReferee 2012-05-04 12:54
Not too worried about the Glasgow result. The people of Glasgow will get the representation that they desire (hell mend them). To be in Government for 5 years and still be increasing number of councillors is astonishing.

Next time we all sit here waiting for results it will be for the big one and I for one can't wait!!
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 12:58
I think, may be wrong, that we have the Euro elections next year.
# iReferee 2012-05-04 13:02
Quoting Jim1320:
I think, may be wrong, that we have the Euro elections next year.

Darn yes you are right...
# Woodside 2012-05-04 12:59
Quoting iReferee:
Not too worried about the Glasgow result. The people of Glasgow will get the representation that they desire (hell mend them). To be in Government for 5 years and still be increasing number of councillors is astonishing.

Next time we all sit here waiting for results it will be for the big one and I for one can't wait!!

Are the euro elections not next year- that will be a good bellweather as it will be a whole of Scotland poll.
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 12:56
Based on complete (8/32 on BBC tables)declarat ions so far the relative vote shares for each of the main parties looks just like May 2011 albeit lower by *0.7 as 30% of councillors are independents. Lots of independents is perfectly normal for council elections.

If this pattern continues, then we should all be happy enough.
# Robert Louis 2012-05-04 13:06
I agree. I don't think these are bad results, in fact I think they are quite good.
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 13:09
Yes, the problem with poll data (which is what we have to go on) is that it is for Holyrood or UKGE. I've never seen a local elections poll for Scotland.

At the moment, if you take out the independents, the SNP share is looking just like its holyrood share, which is the real barometer.

Still 21 to declare fully (BBC site) mind!
# jafurn 2012-05-04 13:00
A little light relief...

Philip Oltermann ‏ @philipolterman n
Breaking: Penguin who beat LibDems in Edinburgh and polar bear who beat Tories in Liverpool in coalition talks, but said to be poles apart
# Robert Louis 2012-05-04 13:34
No panda story......?
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 13:12
SNP seem to have done well in Aberdeenshire, Perth, Dundee and Edinburgh. In fact the only slight disappointment is there was not a slightly stronger showing in Glasgow. All in though not bad. Not bad at all.
# jafurn 2012-05-04 13:13
Michael Crick ‏ @MichaelLCrick
Glasgow Partick West ward (4 seats): Lab 1; SNP 2; Green 1. SNP gain 1 from LD
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 13:14
Could indicate a good student vote for the SNP...
# Dcanmore 2012-05-04 13:14
The MSM rhetoric after Salmond 'accused' and SNP 'attacked' will now be SNP 'expected' to win, but SNP 'failed' to win

The suffocating negativity over the next two weeks will be of SNP 'disappointed' SNP 'failure'... to win Glasgow, to win North Lanarkshire, to make significant inroads into Labour, SNP increase only because of Lib Dem collapse... it's all there scripted and ready to go. While Labour would be seen as the folk heroes hanging on in there for the ordinary working Scot.
# Nation Libre 2012-05-04 13:15
Still hope for an SNP+Green majority in Glasgow. Not all lost yet
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 13:17
I really hope so. It's hard to get decent summary information. The BBC and Herald tickers are OK for what they are, but does anyone have a decent summary table that's up to date?

Edit: Just found one here:
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 13:16
It appears the SNP have full control Angus.

EDIT. And Dundee.
# balgayboy 2012-05-04 13:17
Quoting scottish_skier:
It appears the SNP have full control Angus.

and Dundee as well
# Robert Louis 2012-05-04 13:23
Good news for Dundee.
# Dundonian West 2012-05-04 13:27
DUNDEE overall majority!.Results.
Scottish National Party 55.2% 16 UP 2
Labour 34.5% 10 UP 2
Conservative 3.4% 1 DOWN 2
Liberal Democrat 3.4% 1 DOWN 1
Others 3.4% 1 DOWN 1
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 13:35
Have always had a soft spot for Dundee and its people!

Look at those LD/Con figures!
# Dundonian West 2012-05-04 13:39
I'm from Glasgow.Working,and at Uni here.
5 year course!
SNP % is staggering.
However,no complacency permitted!
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 13:44
I wasn't talking about you! Ha ha!

Congrats anyway! :D
# balgayboy 2012-05-04 13:41
Quoting Dundonian West:
DUNDEE overall majority!.Results.
Scottish National Party 55.2% 16 UP 2
Labour 34.5% 10 UP 2
Conservative 3.4% 1 DOWN 2
Liberal Democrat 3.4% 1 DOWN 1
Others 3.4% 1 DOWN 1

Dundee city and it's citizens have went through hard times in the past decades but notwithstanding that I salute the people of my home town to have foresight and the aspiration to vote for a better future. I and truly believe that the SNP will lead them to a much deserved better future.
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 13:20
BTW folks, in independence polls, Glasgow generally always has a majority for YES, so don't worry if the SNP don't take control, we can still rely on Glasgow saying yes.

Nearly halfway there and voting patterns look almost identical to Holyrood when you remove the independents.
# Willow 2012-05-04 13:44
I'm a bit worried about Fife, I'm hearing Labour are picking up the Lib Dem vote.

Last I heard, about an hour ago was Labour 21, SNP 12, Lib Dem 3, Indy 2.

Any news?
# gus1940 2012-05-04 16:08
It's Glenrothes syndrome.
# Aplinal 2012-05-04 13:45
Having looked around a bit more, these are not so bad results. BUT ...

Here's the thing, Glasgow was THE Labour worry. I think they could care less about the rest of Scotland, so it's strange (at least to me) how well their vote has held, and indeed increased. I really, REALLY. REALLY want to see the postal voting records.

Will these be released, or are the votes so mixed in with the actual "on-the-day" poll, that it is impossible to identify them?

Does anyone know?
# Robert Louis 2012-05-04 13:46
I'll second your question.
# Rooster 2012-05-04 13:55
Probably because the majority of voters in Glasgow have been voting for Labour since the Shipyards were major employers. They vote for Labour simply because Labour is the party they vote for.
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 13:50
I'm sure there's a calculation using £0.60 as the divisor that might give an indication, if somebody can get hold of suitable accounts!
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 13:46
Jenny Dawe booted out. Some trams retribution?
# Robert Louis 2012-05-04 13:48
Not before time.
# 1876 2012-05-04 13:50
Is it not an indication of how far we've came,that winning the most votes,gaining the most councillors is somehow not that great?.....I would imagine that Labour have bottomed out in Scotland,but that of all the Unionist Parties, their voters pro Union stance is the softest,and that it's game on for 2014.
# Aplinal 2012-05-04 13:53
Actually, these are very good results so far. Perhaps I also fell into the obsession with Glasgow syndrome! According to the rolling BBC site

at 14.52
SNP: + 2 councils (that's 2 gains)and + 21 Councilors
LAB: + 1 and + 14
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 13:58
Pretty much all the Beeb's focus seems to revolve around the Glasgow result which is a bit obsessive considering 85% of the country lives elsewhere, Curtice's analysis is becoming increasingly myopic and forced too.
# Woodside 2012-05-04 13:55
Living in North Ayrshire delighted to say that the SNP are now the biggest party by one seat.

Hopefully the 6 independents will do the decent thing and not prop up the Labour party.
# balgayboy 2012-05-04 13:58
Funny how the BBC political expert aka labour placeman Curtis has never mentioned in his reports how unusual it is for an incumbent government i.e. SNP gaining seats which usually the opposite, similar to the incumbent con/lib uk government which has been decimated.
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 14:02
SNP still sitting on 46% share when you remove the independents. Mood the same as May 11 albeit people voting for popular local independents rather than parties as is always the case at council level.
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 14:07
I wish someone would explain this to Prof Curtice who seems to be insistent on comparing apples with oranges.
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 14:10
And cherry-picking the data while he's at it. I think he's bananas!
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 14:19
Aye, so far in terms of relative share of councillors SNP are up a good margin, Labour down a tad, cons no real change and the Libs up doo-doo creek.
# Rooster 2012-05-04 14:02
I'm somewhat confused by the BBC results analysis. So far the SNP have the most seats and the most gains yet Labour are performing better?
# Robert Louis 2012-05-04 14:05
According to the BBC
"There's a 'technical problem with software' at the Glasgow count. Officials say it won't affect the data. They are rebooting."

I do hope the SNP are paying attention.
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 14:08
Maybe there's an integer overflow in the number of postal ballots?

Or maybe a hack has been discovered!
# GrassyKnollington 2012-05-04 14:07
The BBC's James Cook says: "There's a 'technical problem with software' at the Glasgow count. Officials say it won't affect the data. They are rebooting."
# pmcrek 2012-05-04 14:10
We need to remember also that Labour lost 161 councillers in 2007 and the SNP won 182 more, while we are seeing Labour win some of those votes back we are also seeing the SNP not only consolodate their gains in 2007 but also increase their share.

Seems to me that the 30% of people who consistently vote are hardening around an SNP v Labour bloc with an eye perhaps on the referendum.

On a personal note, its been a decent showing for the Greens so far all considering. I'm still hoping for some gains though.
# sid 2012-05-04 14:11
as someone living in renfrewshire, today is not a good day. god only knows what labour will get up to over the next few years.
also finding it difficult to stomach the gloating on the BBC
not happy in the slightest.
# Dundonian West 2012-05-04 14:21
Sid don't be downhearted.Alex Salmond was saying on BBC a couple of hours ago---it'll be very interesting to know the FIRST PREFERENCE VOTES when all the counting is complete.
There's a lot of good news out there for a government in power for 5 years.
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 14:11
What happened to the post about the software glitch at the Glasgow count? It's on the BBC website.
# Robert Louis 2012-05-04 14:12
I posted it, and it has just vanished.
# jafurn 2012-05-04 14:15
Michael Crick ‏ @MichaelLCrick
Glasgow counting resumes
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 14:17
Count early and often...
# andrewmckay 2012-05-04 14:17
Great news in my ward of Wigtown West. Labour have recieved less first preference votes than any other party!
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 14:19
Bit of a 'gardens project' protest vote helping Labour in Aberdeen? Up 9 seats, SNP no change.
# lumilumi 2012-05-04 14:25
Aye, and the fact that the SNP have been in power there.

Labour pledged to overturn the democratic referendum on the Union Street Gardens if they got into power.

Great. Let's vote for a party that promises to flaunt democracy. Apparently voters in Aberdeen fell for it.
# X_Sticks 2012-05-04 14:38
Many of us in Aberdeen did not consider the City Gardens Project to be a democratic referendum.

One side had unlimited funding and media support.
# lumilumi 2012-05-04 15:01
OK, I take your point, especially because I'm not in Aberdeen. ;-) (If I was, I'd probably voted against the new plans.)

The other thing I hear a lot about is the bypass. And the SNP was in power in Aberdeen, so two such contentious local issues should've demolished them - but didn't.
# X_Sticks 2012-05-04 14:34
Ex Council Leader and current Planning and Infrastructure Committee Convenor Kate Dean also lost her seat. Can't say I'm surprised as she was a BIG supporter of the City Garden Project.

While the SNP didn't lose any seats in Aberdeen, the vote would suggest a lot of people are unhappy with local decisions as I have predicted before.

And no, I did not vote against the SNP in spite of being very unhappy with local issues.
# lumilumi 2012-05-04 14:21
Overall, a good day for the SNP - the government party gaining - and also for Slab, holding on or gaining. Dismal for Tories and LibDems. Good for the Greens. Plenty of independents (though, exactly how independent are they?)

The BBC/MSM spinning this as a bad day for the SNP since they didn't win majority in Glasgow.

Just imagine if the MSM in Scotland was truly impartial. The headlines... SNP takes Dundee, Angus... Government party makes gains, unlike south of the border... Labour holds on.
# Willow 2012-05-04 14:31
Fife result

Labour 35
SNP 26
LibDem 10
Con 3
Indy 3
Other 1
# iReferee 2012-05-04 14:32
Tweet from @theSNP

SNP on 350 seats, up 50 on 2007. Making progress north, east, south and west. #scotlandsparty #sc12
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 14:34
Brian Taylor's blog reasonably balanced today. Wonder what he thinks of his Dundee going SNP?
# A_Scottish_Voice 2012-05-04 14:40
I am sure he would having been typing through gritted teeth.
# Louperdowg 2012-05-04 14:41
I listened to Brian on the radio today and his summing up was very fair and there was no sign of bias.

Which is how it should be.

Thanks, Brian.
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 14:48
Maybe he's been rattled by the response to those videos a couple of weeks back.
# lumilumi 2012-05-04 14:48
Listened to Brian on digital (online) radio today, and he seemed fairly balanced and informative. Of course allowing for his inate unionist/Labour bias. But he wasn't too bad, to give credit where it's due.

His guests/interviewees and some other BBC journalists were less so.
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 15:06
Thought Brian has been one of the better commentators today too. Intelligent analysis and pretty fair. If only it was always like this. I don't want an SNP bias I just want neutrality.
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 14:43
BBC ticker:


Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont arrives at the Glasgow count, and is mobbed by party supports, say BBC journalists Raymond Buchanan and James Cook."

"mobbed", not sure if that's good or bad!
# lumilumi 2012-05-04 14:44
That's it! I'm finally convinced of BBC bias. Just listened to digital BBC Radio Scotland, Laura Bicker (? didn't quite catch her name) in North Lanarkshire interviewing the local SNP MSP (James Dornan?)after the SNP did well, as did Slab, and dredging up the Forth Bridge steel contracts ::bangs head against wall:: The SNP MSP did his best to point out that that kind of steel is no longer manufactured in Scotland (thanks to Thatcher et al.) but the BBC chirpy harpy didn't even listen, just went on and tried to spin it that the SNP lost the election - they didn't, they held.

:: bangs head agaist wall::
# Aplinal 2012-05-04 14:58
Things drawing to a finale. 27/32 results n and SNP did well. They have most councilors (325 to Labour's 281):

SNP: Council gains +2: Councillor gains +36
Lab: Council gains +1: Councillor gains +43

It seems most losses from the LDs went to Labour - Unionistas sticking together?

Also worth remembering that Labour were starting from a low point from 2007.

I am pretty happy so far. Fingers crossed for the final results!

EDIT: Most strange,BBC site suddenly jumped to show SNP 353;LAB 314.
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 15:02
A bit out of date. According to the BBC:

SNP 353 (+40)
Labour 314 (+44)

Labour's +44 is on a smaller base, so from these figures it looks like Labour have gained more, but then it could just be the gaining areas counted earlier.

LD are down 55 to 52!!!! 4th, behind possibly the weakest Tory leader in Scotland ever.
# Wee-Scamp 2012-05-04 14:59
Glasgow result is disappointing but on the other hand the SNP has made huge progess there. Concerned about the result in Nicola's ward though.

The one that I think we should learn a big lesson from is Aberdeen.
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 15:09
Yeah, any idea what happened in Govan? Some sort of protest vote surrounding Rangers' predicament maybe?
# Marga B 2012-05-04 15:19
You can see Labour going for one controversial local issue and activating the prejudice of their voters. Once it's sunk in, they don't need to make any more noise. The speaking silences of Labour.

It's no way to govern but it's a clever way to win elections. You don't even need policies.
# GrassyKnollington 2012-05-04 15:02
Could someone not help out the BBC?

The governing party in Scotland has despite 5 years incumbency continued to make gains.

The BBC regrettably are tasked with news managing this happy result into a failure.

These pesky graphics with the annoying yellow fringe party at the top are not assisting the spinning one bit.

Who'd be a BBC journalist?
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 15:08
Poor Oor Wullie!

"Scottish Liberal Democrat Leader Willie Rennie says the council election results have destroyed the "myth that we were in the coalition for ourselves"."

What is he saying here? They knew that going into coalition with the Tories would destroy them, and since they HAVE been destroyed, this shows that they had integrity in doing it anyway, as a sort of sacrifice? Absolutely hilarious.
# Aplinal 2012-05-04 15:09
Worth repeating - For the benefit of the BBC Scotland "journalists" - prior to the 2007 election Labour had over 500 seats. They lost 161 in 2007 to fall to 348; there lowest election for decades. So they really are starting 2012 from a low level.

The SNP on the other hand are trying to gain from a position of being in government for 5 years AND from an already high base point of 363 seats, which it looks like they will comfortably pass.

So, BBC, can we have an objective discussion on Newsnicht?
# Dundonian West 2012-05-04 15:11
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 15:17
That's Aplinal told

# Aplinal 2012-05-04 15:29
# Juteman 2012-05-04 15:13
No chance of an objective discussion Aplinal.
I can't wait to see the actual votes total.
# Dundonian West 2012-05-04 15:44
I'll be very interested in the FIRST CHOICE VOTES total for Scotland-----if they are published.
# Aplinal 2012-05-04 15:49
AFAIK they will be. You can see the 2007 figures online.
# Dundonian West 2012-05-04 15:52
Muchas gracias.
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 15:22
It's going to be a hard one for Newnicht because both the big beasts of Scottish politics have had a good day. The real story is the Coalition implosion but will it get more than thirty seconds coverage before Johann is invited to demonstrate her ant-Nat gurning skills.
# ubinworryinmasheep 2012-05-04 15:23
One thing we can see from this election if your listening to Radio Scotland is where its presenters political leanings are. The glee in some of their voices at the SNP's not gaining Glasgow is there for all to see. We might not have gotten the results we wanted overall but even though the battle might be over we haven't lost the war yet.
# GrassyKnollington 2012-05-04 15:26
I had to turn off my TV as the sun was glinting of Lorraine Davidson's massive smile and burning a wee hole in my living room wall...
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 15:26
I'm not worried at all about Glasgow. It would have been nice to wipe the smiles of Labour's face but Glasgow will vote for independence anyway - in independence polls it always shows a good majority for yes as I said earlier.

At the moment I'm waiting on Highland - it should deliver good SNP gains as the Libs take another hit but none for Labour.
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 15:30
We'll never lose the 'war'. We just need to win an independence referendum once.

The Westminster Executive needs to prevent such a 'skirmish' happening all the time, and win every one that they fail to 'defuse'.
# X_Sticks 2012-05-04 15:39
You can just feel the british bumph reporters patting themselves on the back at holding off the SNP challenge in Glasgow through all their smearing and propaganda over the last few weeks. They'll be thinking they can do the same with the independence referendum. Look out for more (and More and MORE) of the same until 2014.
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 15:26
I see the SNP have 371 seats with four councils still to declare. So they have comfortably passed the 2007 high water mark.
# Aplinal 2012-05-04 15:30
Just about to say the same thing.


Soar Alba
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 15:33
Indeed, if anything it's Labour that have gained from the LD collapse (as in England). But this will be spun as the SNP gaining from the LD collapse.
# ubinworryinmasheep 2012-05-04 15:37
Not bad considering the Labour muckspreading machine that was driving around last week. They have tried smears this time but it wont happen the next.
# ubinworryinmasheep 2012-05-04 15:32
It will be interesting in Aberdeen with Labour being the biggest party and promising to stop the Union Terrace Gardens project.
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 15:35
Did they? - I thought they were undecided amongst themselves on that?
# ubinworryinmasheep 2012-05-04 15:40
Not sure Jim, thats what Radio Scotland were saying. I'd think it pretty controversial and sure to upset a lot of folks.
# bipod 2012-05-04 15:32
Very annoying, the bbc reporter a minute ago when into great depth showing us labour gains in scotland but then refused to show us SNP gains in Dundee and Angus.
# pmcrek 2012-05-04 15:50
The map "broke" when they tried to show them earlier.
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 15:37
Anybody know what the turnout was - snippets show numbers like 42% for Edinburgh. I thought they were forecasting a shocker like 25% this morning.
# Triangular Ears 2012-05-04 15:40
Postal votes? I wouldn't be surprised about ANYTHING...
# Legerwood 2012-05-04 16:19
last I heard was 38% turnout overall.

Not great but better than the 30% being forecast just before the elections.
# GrassyKnollington 2012-05-04 15:38
According to Stephen Noon the SNP now has more councillors elected than we had in 2007.

Will the bad news never end?
# jafurn 2012-05-04 15:56
I know what you mean....

Stewart Hosie ‏ @StewartHosieMP
STV reporting that the #SNP have 417 councillors elected so far. Over 50 gains since 2007.
# neoloon 2012-05-04 15:43
Another good step on the road to independence.
# Dancemaster 2012-05-04 15:52
Who's going to accept blame for SNP result in Glasgow. Hunter? Sturgeon? Mackay? Salmond? Only joking about Salmond obviously!
# Aplinal 2012-05-04 15:52
BBC Scotland?
# west_lothian_questioner 2012-05-04 16:12
Labour voters. Hell mend them all.
# Louperdowg 2012-05-04 16:08
If the people of Glasgow think that the best way forward is with the Labour Party then I wish them the very best of luck.

They are obviously very happy with the way things are in the City Chambers.
# Keep UTG 2012-05-04 15:53
The SNP shot themselves in the foot with the UTG debacle,they`ve cost us control of the City which was there for the taking but allowed the opportunistic labour party to take the high ground,this is a fundamental error.
Knowing how labour would crow about this i voted for the SNP,but make no mistake,Aberdee n will now suffer from labour rule,just like they did up to 2003.the
SNP blew it,not a happy bunny.
# X_Sticks 2012-05-04 16:14
I think the SNP and the LibDems in Aberdeen have been lost out over their support for Ian Wood's "visionary" City Gardens (underground car park) project, the Aberdeen bypass and Trump's housing and hotel development (with golf course). I don't think there is as much support for these big bucks projects as they would like us to think. Their arrogant dismissal of opponents of these projects as NIMBYs standing in the road of "progress" has cost them control of the council. I think the election of Martin Ford (the councillor who voted against the controversial Trump development) to the Aberdeenshire council as a Green speaks volumes too.
# westie7 2012-05-04 16:27
Then explain Aberdeenshire.. Where Trumpton is. 5 miles from me.
For some unknown reason the Cons and Lib councillors kept their seats when they were nowhere to be seen.

SNP 1 & 2 and they were the only ones out and about
# daveniz 2012-05-04 16:04
Absolutley annoyed at bbc and stv they were beeming that labour took Glasgow and talked up labours gains while talking down SNP gains even though the SNP have 50+ more new councillors than labour got it seems the second place labour got made to sound like the victors and somehow SNP the losers when that could be further from the truth! SNP 417 councillors so far!
# pmcrek 2012-05-04 16:13
I dont remember seeing them drill into one council on the BBC that had SNP gains. Every one that they checked was to display Labour gains.

I guess they have a national picture to paint (artificially national) and thus are only selecting areas that back that narrative up, despite it being a different narrative in Scotland.

Basically, good progress for the Greens, decent showing for Labour, regaining at least half of what they lost in 2007 and a decent showing for the SNP, consolodating and increasing support since 2007.

Lastly, the Lib Dems dire story in Scotland and the Tories maintaining more or less their support.
# Saltire Groppenslosh 2012-05-04 16:08
Being the eternal optimist amongst you, I see a silver lining in every black cloud.

The SNP have the highest number of Scottish Councillors but have lost the chance of gaining control of Glasgow City.

At first glance this is bad news for the SNP but not so! Any council under Labour control will be faced, as will they all, with the further cuts that are planned in future. This may turn out to be a poisoned chalice.

Now for the big battle. We'll win that one.
# rgweir 2012-05-04 16:12
The people of Glasgow are now a lost cause,I hate to say this but here we have proof that a section of society in Glasgow are ignorant politicaly or otherwise.
They deserve being left to be shafted by Labour.
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 16:20
It was always going to be unlikely that Glasgow was going to be a win. The SNP needed 5 or 6 more seats to ensure NOC. They gained 7 seats on the day. There was a time when Glasgow was a sea of red. The fact that they are cockahoop they retained it shows how much things have changed. Overall it has been a good day for both parties a pretty grim one for the Coalition.

Shocking turnout in Glasgow though 32%.
# pmcrek 2012-05-04 16:24
Glasgow was always a tough nut to crack but it has clearly buckled.

Dont forget, in 2003 the SNP only won 3 seats to Labours 71 in Glasgow. By 2007 the SNP had won 22 seats to Labours 45 and now in 2012 the SNP have just won 27 seats to Labours 44.

When we add 5 Greens to that picture too, the days of Labour utterly dominating local Government in Glasgow are close to over.
# Aplinal 2012-05-04 16:34
the days of Labour utterly dominating local Government in Glasgow are close to over.

But they STILL have the majority, and the people of Glasgow will have to suffer at least two years of spoiling tactics against the SNP Government, rather than having their lives improved.

I repeat my previous question: "What on earth has to change for most people in Glasgow to reject the empty promises of Labour?"
# pmcrek 2012-05-04 16:52
As I said previously, less than ten years ago Labour used to return 71 councillors out of around 80 in Glasgow regularly, they now return 44.

The reason Labour still have a majority is, the party has been utterly dominant in Glasgow politics for decades. It takes time to turnaround such massive initial support, however the trend in the past ten years shows that it is turning.
# Saltire Groppenslosh 2012-05-04 16:26
That's a sweeping statement. What you have to consider is that Glasgow have returned 27 SNP Councillors. We're not a lost cause and I think you should retract that one RGW.

That's politics, get used to it. Sometimes you dont win. Dont forget that most of the work is done through the tv and there are factors that didnt help - labour just capitalised on events.
# creag an tuirc 2012-05-04 16:17
Congratulations to Glasgow Labour, thanks for keeping us drunk, thanks for keeping us on drugs, thanks for keeping us unhealthy, thanks for keeping us poor, thanks for keeping us religiously divided, thanks for keeping us illiterate, thanks for keeping the roads in appalling condition, thanks for keeping us down. and thanks for keeping us in the early 20th century.
# tartanfever 2012-05-04 16:23
First new policy for the SNP government - stop the council tax freeze. Tell all SNP councillors that they should not vote to increase council tax wherever they sit and watch labour and the rest of the unionists put the council tax up next year.

That'll keep the labour voters happy in Glasgow, North Lanarkshire and Aberdeen.
# red kite 2012-05-04 16:56
Quoting tartanfever:
First new policy for the SNP government - stop the council tax freeze. Tell all SNP councillors that they should not vote to increase council tax wherever they sit and watch labour and the rest of the unionists put the council tax up next year.

That'll keep the labour voters happy in Glasgow, North Lanarkshire and Aberdeen.

Nah, most labour voters don't pay council tax, they're on council tax benefits.
# gfaetheblock 2012-05-04 17:51
That is really quite offensive. All labour voters are on benefits?

Do you have any other caricatures for other parties' voters to share?
# Aplinal 2012-05-04 16:17
Just Highlands to come. Overall this has been a good set of results.

Like AS I am interested in seeing the first preference votes. It would be nice to have not only more councilors than Labour, but a higher %age of the 1st pref votes.
# alicmurray 2012-05-04 16:21
Living in Glasgow I am shocked that they again have voted in SLAB and to add insult to injury to rescue McAveety and Butler two failed MSPs from the dole queues. Will they never learn. What is the attraction for incompetent, greedy chacers?
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 16:21
Overall turnout in Glasgow was 32.4% - as bad as England and well below the 40%s or more seen elsewhere across Scotland.

I'm saddened at such a low turnout. Of course Labour are happy though.

Will be interesting to see what the final turnouts were across the whole of Scotland. I suspect we may see a pattern of Labour doing well in areas of low aspiration/low turnout - has worked well for them this.
# Legerwood 2012-05-04 16:22
What appals me is the number of 'hung' councils. No wonder people do not turn out to vogte when the election does not give a clear result.

Kenneth Roy has a good article in the Scottish Review about the elections, which will no doubt appear on NNS in due course, and makes the suggestion that the voting system needs to be changed. totally agree with that.
# Aplinal 2012-05-04 16:27
But to what? Certainly NOT back to FPTP, maybe the d'Hondt system? Don't know much about it, TBH, but it is used quite a bit in Europe and world-wide.

Wiki has a page here:

I think it was being considered as an alternative a few years ago.
# pmcrek 2012-05-04 16:31
I happen to love the new system, it ensures that a minority of political opinion can't dominate any majority.

Parties with 35% of the vote have no right to unchallengable power.
# GrassyKnollington 2012-05-04 16:24
I reckon the Moet & Chandon will be getting uncorked at Pacific Quay after the Glasgow result.

Glenn's tweet sets the party mood

Glenn Campbell ‏ @GlennBBC Labour's Lord Foulkes says 'first wheel is off SNP bandwagon, next will come off at referendum'.
# naemairleesplease 2012-05-04 16:33
The loss of 2 wheels won't stop the course of a juggernaut!
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 16:34
According to Milliband Labour have beaten back the SNP (to first place). It is not a use of back I've seen before but if it makes him happy who am I to argue
# pmcrek 2012-05-04 16:34
Technically they've lost one seat in Glasgow since the 2007 election and 27 since 2003.
# millie 2012-05-04 16:39
RE: Glenn Campbell’s tweet/ referendum-

Just a reminder to anyone who wishes to, but hasn’t yet filled in the Scottish Government’s Referendum Consultation.

Only 7 DAYS left to complete it.
# Jim1320 2012-05-04 16:32
How is Highland doing - thought was nearly done- it seems to have slipped off the radar
# macdoc 2012-05-04 16:37
Well one ward with 4 seats in the highlands still to come.

SNP 423 seats (402 +21highland)
Labour 394 seats (386+8highland )

Hardly disastrous althouth but I'm certain if it wasn't for the recent smears we could subtract at least 50 from labour and add 50 to the SNP.
# pmcrek 2012-05-04 16:55
We should remember less than a decade ago Labour used to get around 500 seats and the SNP 180.
# James01 2012-05-04 16:38
Havin grown up in a Glasgow 'scheme' with all the poverty, crime, drug taking and downright misery that entailed I could never understand the locals keeping faith in the Labour Party. Then they'd have the cheek to say "independence would be bad for Scotland", how could it be any worse than this! Looks like they'll never learn.
# Woodside 2012-05-04 16:40
SNP now have more councillors in Scotland than Libdems do in the whole of the UK
# GrassyKnollington 2012-05-04 16:40
I think we're all agreed that both the SNP and the BBC have performed well in terms of results today and that the BBC have indeed done well to hold on to Glasgow.
# ubinworryinmasheep 2012-05-04 16:42
Isabel Fraser giving Curran a hard time !!
# Astonished 2012-05-04 17:15
Of course she is - the election is over.

It took me years to figure out this was the ploy used by the "impartial" herald. A paper I used to buy every day.

Looking on the bright side - This means lamont's job is safe. And it remains, overall, a very good result for the SNP, sadly not everywhere. "You can fool ....etc"

However we must become much better at dealing with BBC bias.
# jafurn 2012-05-04 16:43
Stephen Noon ‏ @StephenNoon
Looks like @theSNP was largest party in terms of 1st pref votes in Aberdeen and also v. big lead in Dundee #sc12 #BBCvote2012

Surely that is the real measure of this election, in how many seats were the SNP the 1st preference.?
Don't forget the referendum will not be on the transferable vote.
# cuckooshoe 2012-05-04 16:48
when i went to my local polling station i was handed a folded ballot paper.

well i've just read an article on the stv website..

which says..

“Polling station staff are there to help if there is any confusion over how to vote. It is also important that when completed ballot papers are not folded before they are placed in the ballot boxes.”

are folded ballot papers counted?
# bull 2012-05-04 16:51
Is the BBC in Scotland really like some product of Putin or Berlusconi? It's odd, because down here in England it looks like it's under constant attack from the tories and is a bit of a bulwark when it comes to a bit of impartiality about what the coalition policies are creating in the uk.
I find some of the comments about the SNP doing well in Scotland' despite being in government a little odd. People saying that would surely agree it's a bit different to being the coalition and getting the usual thrashing that government's get, isn't? After all, the SNP in Scotland have the advantage of being able to claim that anything adversely effecting Scotland is the result of perfidious albion, while anything positive is....while being closer to the politics of the SNP (are they left of centre?) than the labour party is a little ungracious to consider the core labour vote as deluded idiots don't you think? I thought that sort of contempt for the voters belonged to the enemy?
# jafurn 2012-05-04 16:52
This one really made me laugh...

George Foulkes ‏ @GeorgeFoulkes
AS claims more seats but SNP have small rural seats and Labour large Central Belt wards. BBC Scotland & others falling for SNP spin as usual
# aiberdeen sheep 2012-05-04 16:54
Do glasgow people revel in poverty, misery and early death?

I am now of the opinion that Labour and Glasgow deserve each other.

We should cede the place to RUK.

A really strange place.
# pmcrek 2012-05-04 16:58
Remember about 68% of people in Glasgow simply dont vote largely because of what that poverty has done to the city.
# macdoc 2012-05-04 17:04
You have to vote Labour, remember how bad Thatcher was.
# cjmjr 2012-05-04 17:00
The results are awsome to think where we were just 10 years ago to being Scotlands largest political party.If you set yourself high goals and you don't quite make them you push harder you don't lower the bar. Well done to everyone activists and councillors alike great effort, we are proud of each and every one of you.Now the move to Independence lets get stuck in.
# aiberdeen sheep 2012-05-04 17:06
I would love to know the average age of the people who voted in this election and also what type of people.

My guess is that the "nearly dead" labour people voted at the polling stations and labour's battalions of council workers voted by post.
# Harry.Shanks 2012-05-04 17:47
The electorate in Glasgow are there to be persuaded - the SNP did not persuade them, that's the bottom line.

Instead of criticising the electorate, the SNP's task ought to be to identify the weaknesses in their campaign.

I could name two of them - one national (entirely manufactured by our opponents, and I include the BBC in that) and one local (and I am not in the business of criticising individuals).

To overlook these factors is to deny the "bleeding obvious"

However, at this point, we are ahead in councillors and votes - hopefully this will continue and we wil have a good if not spectacular result.
# chicmac 2012-05-04 23:11
the point is Harry, that one might reasonably have expected Labour to persuade them to vote SNP.
# SNP George Town Branch 2012-05-04 17:08
Some disappointments but overall better performance. Slow and steady; we WILL win the day. Chin up!
# Early Ball 2012-05-04 17:31
I cannot believe supposedly intelligent folk on here are criticising the electorate.

Pretty good day although not stunning.

Lessons will be learned. Hopefully keep out of football is one of them.

One thing I have learned is not to leave things to others. I will now go and join the SNP.
# sid 2012-05-04 17:46
please please please DON'T take out your frustration on the electorate in glasgow and elsewhere. they decided not to vote the way we would of liked but hey that is there democratic right to do so. we will never get the amount of swing required to remove labour from glasgow by slagging off the electorate.
A worse result is to be found in renfrewshire for a start
# Aplinal 2012-05-04 17:39
Highland in. SNP total + 57 councilors from a high in 2007; Labour +58 from a low in 2007.

Wonder how the BBC will play this - Ha! It will all be about Glasgow.

Still, actually amazing results. Congratulations to all who participated, stuffed envelopes, walked the streets, canvased and generally got out there and did what was necessary.

Lessons will be learned, and I feel even more confident about 2014 than I did earlier today (Glasgow got to me too!)
# A_Scottish_Voice 2012-05-04 17:42
To be fair, the Labour party, BBC Scotland, STV and the rest of the unionist media knuckle draggers, would have loved to have been able to say after this election, that the bubble had burst, the honeymoon is over (yes Iain Macwhirter you know who you are), and the high water mark nonsense. You know the drivel, but they can’t.

The bottom line is that this is an SNP victory no matter what direction you look at it from. Granted there will be a lot of work ahead, and “The BBC Scotland Question” will have to be addressed, but this is now the home straight. It is a clear run to the finishing line, and I believe that if the referendum voting system can be run without any “interference”, then Scotland will have the future it deserves.
# chicmac 2012-05-04 23:12
Yep. A lot of pre-prepared copy being ripped up.
# balbeggie 2012-05-04 17:44
SNP finish on 424, Labour on 394. Conservatives on 115, Lib Dems on 71, Greens 14, SSP 1 and Independents 201. In my view a very credible result. With gaining Dundee and Angus.
# paulmahon 2012-05-04 17:57
63 more pro-independence councillors; 63 fewer unionists.
# gfaetheblock 2012-05-04 17:59
A great night for Labour in the UK and a good night for the SNP in Scotland.

I wonder if the SNP momentum has been slowed by anti-independence sentiment, the Murdoch connection focus in the press or just generic apathy?
# scottish_skier 2012-05-04 18:02
A very good result for the SNP.

Before people get too worried about Labour doing ok, we must remember that not everyone will vote SNP! We'd be a one party state for real. Clearly the two going to take a hit were the libs and the Tories.

Also, before we can judge the mood of the nation accurately we must await actual number of total votes cast Scotland-wide for each party. A quick look suggests Labour did well where turnout was low. If so, then the number of councillors they gained may not truly reflect their vote share. While STV should deliver something close to PR, that only applies for a specific council area. I note Glasgow was at the lower end of turnout at 32.4% apparently.

When the full breakdowns are available I shall explore. Even as an amateur I think I have a better handle on results than Prof. Curtis!
# curley bill 2012-05-04 19:30
You're not setting a very high bar, aiming to be better than the wooly prof.
# the wallace 2012-05-04 18:05
The giro party hangs on tae glasgow,as for the glaswegians who voted for them, as my auld maw used to say hell mend ye,s.
# Dunnichen685 2012-05-04 18:07
I should be happy. I voted SNP, and the SNP came top of the table with 424 councilors nationwide ahead of Labour with 394. Instead I have been fuming all day at BBC Scotlandshires clearly biased coverage on radio and TV. The negative spin they have put on the SNP victory is unbelievable !!! All they seem to care about is Labour holding Glasgow. Let be realistic about it, no one expected the SNP to win there. Its been a sea of red since the days of Keir Hardie.
Notice how the pictures on the BBC news website concentrate on showing happy glasgow Labour and a glum looking Nicola Sturgeon.
Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always thought that if you finish top of the table your the winner, not the runner up. It's like trying to claim that Celtic (who I don't support BTW) are not SPL champions because they failed to win either of the Cups !!!
The BBC are a disgrace. The sooner the licence fee is scrapped the better.

Rant over, I'm away for a small dram to calm down.

P.S. Congratulations to Karen Marjoram, elected as an SNP councillor for Cupar
# tilly 2012-05-04 18:32
I noticed that, too - impossible to miss. The selection of these two pictures by the 'unbiased' BBC says it all.
# chicmac 2012-05-04 23:21
The fact nearly all the election slot time was denoted to Glasgow didn't stop them using the pathetic Glasgow turnout figure of less than a third of the electorate to imply a low turnout in Scotland generally.

Scotland's turnout was significantly more than that in England and the inordinately low turnout in Glasgow should if anything have justified less than the approx 1/9th of the time it should have gotten on a pro rata basis.

It is worse than the anti-Chavist media in Venezuela.
# scotsgal 2012-05-04 18:07
A good point was made by AS in that it is normal for parties to suffer a mid term slump, i.e. LibDem and Conservatives reasons for doing so badly, yet SNP made gains and seem to have held their own against Labour.
# ituna semea 2012-05-04 19:51
The coalition is suffering a mid term slump because it is pursuing unpopular policies in order to stabilise the economy. Mr Salmond's "government" doesn't raise taxes it just spends taxpayer's money, as usual Salmond is being economical with the truth.
# Keep UTG 2012-05-05 08:04
Someone else raises the taxes on our behalf then give us less in return,but you know that. The coalition have decided that we`re going to have a lot less of the taxes raised in Scotland in the future,that seems acceptable to you,as it does to labour or any of the other british parties.

So there you have it in a nutshell,depend ency is the preserve of unionists,and they look on it as something to be proud of and to maintain.
# scotswhahae 2012-05-04 18:07
can someone tell me the date of the demonstration at City Quay
# Aplinal 2012-05-04 18:11
26th May
# scotswhahae 2012-05-04 18:12
Quoting Aplinal:
26th May

Cheers, much appreciated
# alicmurray 2012-05-04 18:13
Watching Channel 4 they showed Ed Miliband getting an egg smashed on his left shoulder while he was in Birmingham the BEEB did not show this. Their discection of the Labour vote in England takes a lot off the gloss that the BBC spun on them.
# mealer 2012-05-04 18:24
On referendum day,Labour wont be on the ballot paper.
# Begbie 2012-05-04 18:37
Being from glasgow im bitterly disappointed that the people who live here are happy to have another 5 years of a clueless taxpayers money wasting party.When i went to vote after work yesterday i was approached by someone from labour handing out their manifesto and asking if i would be voting for labour i looked at the manifesto and asked him if he felt ashamed to which he was taken aback and asked why i had asked him that and i said well after well over 50 years of labour why had they not fulfilled these things already and said i would be ashamed to be handing out stuff like that he was gobsmacked i just left him with im sorry im an snp man seems im in a minority though feel so let down by my fellow glaswegians.
# Diabloandco 2012-05-04 19:00
me too Begbie- but I think Labour didn't win , the shameful media of Scotland won and I find that contemptible.
The past couple of weeks have been utterly disgusting in terms of msm coverage and I want revenge!
# cuckooshoe 2012-05-04 21:16
i was given a folded ballot paper and made my choice. i'm 6 feet and the tiny instructions in the booth were just above my eye level. i used the pencil to follow the words and pulled out the drawing pin it was attached too. after i made my selection i wasn't sure if i had to fold it again.. dont forget it was handed to me already folded.. the two people manning the desk weren't particularly communicative. so i asked if i should put it in box with the one fold.. they nodded their head and pointed to the slot. i read earlier and my brother told me tonight it should not have been folded.. now i'm thinking my vote wont have been counted..
# bull 2012-05-04 21:23
Do you have to be a SNP supporter to get a post allowed on here? I put a post up which was not supportive of the SNP position, but which I thought was perfectly reasonable in terms of tone of debate. Are my comments not allowed?

Are things a bit 'pravda' on this site?

No - NNS Mod Team
# cuckooshoe 2012-05-04 23:49
have you tried posting a comment on bbc scotland recently?
# bull 2012-05-05 06:23
Thanks. That's good to know. I'm still finding comments on here about the BBC a tad unhinged in places - worse than the anti-Chavez press? Really?

As a new poster you will be pre moderated until we get to know you.
We apologise that things have been a bit slow lately but all of our moderators were
involved in the local elections to some extent and were very busy
NNS Mod Team
# Caadfael 2012-05-05 07:25
No Bull, I read it .. no bull!
Incidentally, I find this very telling .. the Lib Dems stand on 431 seats throughout Britain, and the SNP are on 424.
There'll be a lot of squeaky bums in wastemonster when this finally filters through!
# Diabloandco 2012-05-05 07:50
It is there at 17.53.
And I 'm sure we welcome good ,honest debate - venture into the Scotsman style and we'll eat you!
# Keep UTG 2012-05-05 08:06
Quoting bull:
Do you have to be a SNP supporter to get a post allowed on here? I put a post up which was not supportive of the SNP position, but which I thought was perfectly reasonable in terms of tone of debate. Are my comments not allowed?

Are things a bit 'pravda' on this site?

No - NNS Mod Team

Have just read it as well,an apology will be in the offing i suppose?

You must be logged-in in order to post a comment.


Donate to Newsnet Scotland


Latest Comments