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   By a Newsnet reporter

The Catalan capital of Barcelona was brought to a standstill on Tuesday during a massive rally in favour of Catalan independence.  Marching under the slogan Catalunya, nou Estat d'Europa (Catalonia, new European state) the streets of the Mediterranean city were packed by demonstrators from all parts of Catalonia demanding independence from Spain in an unprecedented show of mass support for Catalan sovereignty, blaming the Madrid government for the economic crisis which is dragging Catalonia down along with the rest of Spain.

Attendance at the rally exceeded even the most optimistic forecasts of organisers.  The regional government estimated that the crowd was 600,000 strong.  Local police said the true figure was likely to be as high as 1.5 million.  Catalunya has a total population of 7.5 million, meaning that even on the lower estimates, almost 10% of the entire population were motivated to attend the independence rally, held on la Diada, Catalonia's national day.

Singing the Catalan national anthem, the march set off at six o clock local time on Tuesday evening, but hours before the centre of the city was already brimming with Catalans who had arrived from all parts of the country in order to participate in the historic event.  

Amongst the placards demanding that Catalonia should have the right to decide its own future, the slogan 'Catalonia is not Spain' was one of the most common.  

Some observers noted with surprise that many of the demonstrators were talking amongst themselves in Spanish, not Catalan.  Catalonia has a large population of people from other parts of Spain, or who come from Spanish speaking families.  Traditionally native Spanish speakers were regarded as being less likely to support Catalan independence than native Catalan speakers.  The strong presence of "castelloparlants" at the demonstration is perhaps a sign that the old certainties of Spanish politics are beginning to shift under the pressure of the economic crisis.

Catalonia has been badly affected by the ongoing economic crisis, and has been effectively shut out of the debt markets.  Last month, Catalonia requested €5 billion (approx £4 billion) from an €18 billion emergency fund set up by Madrid to help regions service their debts and pay suppliers of health care and other basic services.

Catalonia's fiscal problems have led its regional government to make some of the deepest budget cuts in Spain, particularly in health and education, to lower the deficit from 3.7% of gross regional product last year to the 1.5% limit demanded by the Government in Madrid for this year.  

The need for a bailout has only fed the demands of protestors for change.

Lluis Plangumà, one of a group of from the village of Santa Pau in the province of Girona said:

"It's absurd that we are now having to ask the government in Madrid to lend us money that should have been ours to use in the first place."

Speaking to the BBC, Alfred Bosch, a member of parliament representing the leftist party Esquerra Republicana Catalana (ERC), which ultimately seeks a Catalan republic, voiced his amazement at the number of demonstrators waving the flag of the Catalan republic, and said:

"All the flags I can see are the pro-independence flags of Catalonia with the lonely star right in the middle of the triangle.

"And everybody is wearing these flags. I have never seen so many pro-independence flags in my all life."

The former leader of the ERC, Josep-Lluís Carod-Rovira, highlighted that this march was not taking place to protest against some decision from Madrid, instead the marchers were sending a positive message about the future of Catalonia and demanding that Catalonia be able to control its own destiny.

"This is an event with a clear objective," he said, making it clear that Catalonia was not just sending a message to Madrid, but to the whole world and to the Catalan people themselves.  "This is a nuclear message.  This is not just making a fuss." he added.

The march was attended by a broad range of politicians and representatives of Catalan civic society.  Amongst those attending were the former Catalan president Jordi Pujol and other members of his CiU party, and Helena Rakosnik, the wife of the current president of the Catalan Government, Artur Mas. Sandro Rosell, president of Barcelona football club, and Xavier Trias, the mayor of Barcelona, were also present.  

The march was also attended by a number of leading members of the Catalanist wing of the PSC, the Catalan branch of the PSOE, the party of the former government in Madrid headed by José Luis Zapatero, who play a role in Catalan politics roughly analogous to that of the Labour party in Scotland.  Noted PSC politicians such as  Ernest Maragall, Antoni Castells, Marina Geli, Àngel Ros, Laia Bonet and Joan Ignasi Elena, amongst others, attended the march despite their party's official opposition to it.  

Speaking after the march Artur Mas, the president of the Catalan Government, said that after this demonstration, the Spanish Government must "take note and listen well and attentively" to the rising clamour from Catalan society, and must "respect it and not ridicule it".

Comments  

 
# naemairleesplease 2012-09-11 23:34
Anar en es Catalunya!
(google translate for go on yersel Catalonia)

Quote:
The regional government estimated that the crowd was 600,000 strong. Local police said the true figure was likely to be as high as 1.5 million. Catalunya has a total population of 7.5 million, meaning that even on the lower estimates, almost 10% of the entire population were motivated to attend the independence rally, held on la Diada, Catalonia's national day.


Wouldn't it be great if we could get half a million at the march and rally on the 22nd!

www.independenceforscotland.com/.../

Here's a video of the Catalan march (sorry it's from the bbc)

bbc.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# Fungus 2012-09-12 08:13
[quote name="naemairleesplea se"


Here's a video of the Catalan march (sorry it's from the bbc)/quote]

At 00.50 there is someone carrying an umbrella with Saltire emblazoned on it
 
 
# SolTiger 2012-09-11 23:58
As a pessimist I have a quickly solidifying fear that the march on the 22nd will have a rubbish turn out. Of course this is based on nothing but pure pessimism.

Really hope I'm wrong, also I hope the weather will not conspire against it (some people will no see gettin rained on as a worthy price to pay to show support for Scotland) and that I'll be able to get myself down for it.
 
 
# PrideoftheClyde 2012-09-12 02:49
I'm optimistic that we can get a good turn out for the 22nd. Everyone who reads this website and supports our cause almost has a responsibility to attend. A low turn out will only give the enemies of independence ammunition to attack something which many of you have supported for most of your lives. This is a once in a generation chance to make a stand at this early stage in the debate. Not only to show our opponents that we are here and motivated for this great debate but also to show our fellow Scots, who may be sitting on the fence or not thinking about independence at all, that there are lots of ordinary people out there just like them that support an independent Scotland.

If you are thinking of going but not sure, stop thinking now. Get your bus or train ticket sorted, swap shifts, get the day off, buy your Saltires and get ready because in 10 days we are marching for our country's future!
 
 
# Zed 2012-09-12 05:58
Why is this not being reported by the BBC or even STV for that matter?
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-09-12 06:09
The BBC have it, although they appear confused about exactly where Catalonia is.

bbc.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# Ready to Start 2012-09-12 07:08
Quoting Jiggsbro:
The BBC have it, although they appear confused about exactly where Catalonia is.

bbc.co.uk/.../...


And the Unionists claim that TV in an independent Scotland would be second rate and parochial while ignoring the parochial London centric BBC / ITV / Sky etc. United States which is larger is even more parochial.
 
 
# igster999 2012-09-12 07:38
Quoting Zed:
Why is this not being reported by the BBC or even STV for that matter?


It is being reported on BBC World News and the figure of 1.5 million is given. I don't know about STV but I'd be more woried about the 'Scottish' media. I could't find a mention of it yet in The Scotsman (no great surprise there I suppose) and only a laughable, derisory, unattributed mention in the Herald which appears to have been writen by a ten year old for their school project and which mentions a figure "tens of thousands". Nothing in the tabloids of course.
 
 
# bodun 2012-09-12 14:57
Slightly O/T,
but have you seen this:

www.bbc-scotlandshire.webridean.com/

Is Andy Murray really too Scottish?
 
 
# Leader of the Pack 2012-09-12 07:05
The rally on the 22nd will be as poorly attended as the campaign to advertise has been! If you dont read this web site you will not be aware a rally has been planned! The failure to make this known mainstream will result in a failure of the rally to impress anybody. The campaign for Independence better step up a couple of gears or we are in for a very huge disappointment come the referendum!
 
 
# indy2014 2012-09-12 07:38
Trouble is most people don't know about the march. Ask pepole if they're attending the march on the 22nd and they ask you what march.
The Yes camp should be looking at advertising this in the papers or at least MP's mentioning it when getting interviewed.
 
 
# Breeks 2012-09-12 07:42
The Catalans have sympathetic media coverage for their objectives, grievances and aspirations, while we have our own similar aspirations suppressed and distorted by the BBC and MSM.
We are so dominated by our corrosive media that we even have to exercise restraint backing our heroic sportsmen, so what chance is there for 1.5 million Scots filling the streets? Don't be disheartened if the Catalans can coordinate their voices better than we can, - we have a BBC frog in our throat.

Catalonia is fully awake and self aware, whereas Scotland is merely waking up, - but it is waking up and our hostile media are losing their battle to suppress it.
 
 
# Marga B 2012-09-12 07:56
One slight correction - it was not the "regional government" that cut the estimate of attendance to half, it was the representative in Catalonia of the Madrid government (aka colonial governor) Need I say more...

Also it's not economic problems in general that the rally was against, if anything it was the unfair tax treatment of Catalonia, but basically it was a clear call for independence, people sick of getting no response but the brush-off from central government.

Also while we are told that the event was headline news on the BBC (TV or website, not clear) the national public TV in Spain (recently "purged" by the incoming government) had it at number 5 on the agenda.

The President of Catalonia is currently giving a press conference, with only the Catalan and European flags behind him (Spanish flag absent) saying that this is the start of a process seeking "plenitude" for Catalan sovereignty, that it is unstoppable, that fiscal autonomy is only the first step, but at all times avoiding the word "independence". He knows there's a lot of Catalan opposition to independence too, and as you know, words count.

Intriguing to see what actually happens.

Edit - Breeks, Catalonia has a sympathetic press in many places, much of it due to years of hard work by an international network of journalists, academics, translators and others started off by one man, combating every lie about Catalonia with press releases and gradually establishing credibility with the press, so that of all papers, in particular, the Financial Times reporters are very well informed, combating the malign influence of Madrid where most foreign correspondents are based.

Talking to the organiser yesterday, he said that it's very hard to get a message over to other countries if your government doesn't have a clear message. Well that's one place where Scotland wins - the government has a very clear message and international credibility.

Maybe Scotland needs a hard-working internal network to try to penetrate the hostile press - there must be a way in.

Col·lectiu Emma:

emma-col-cat.blogspot.com.es/

Here's the website, it's well worth a look, whatever language you speak.
 
 
# cirsium 2012-09-12 10:55
MargaB - thanks for that link. Very interesting website. I came across this - 20 reasons why I am an independentist - we are not alone! newscatalonia.com/.../...
 
 
# Seagetagrip 2012-09-12 08:30
Nothing in the Herald either although have expressed dismay at letters@thehera ld,co.uk.
Also the article on Ed Balls being booed provides a possible window for comment on the value of street protest as mentioned at TUC Conference.
 
 
# mutterings 2012-09-12 08:53
Quoting Leader of the Pack:
The rally on the 22nd will be as poorly attended as the campaign to advertise has been!

The March and Rally has been organized and financed by volunteers. It is not part of the Yes Campaign.

Any type of advertising relies on funding and volunteers. It's us that need to donate and distribute leaflets. Find out how you can help: www.independenceforscotland.com/.../

This event will be repeated in 2013 and 2014.
 
 
# Angus 2012-09-12 09:01
Im going to the march on the 22nd, and have got another 11 people rounded up to go.
Pity Newsnet wont let me post anymore.
 
 
# Seagetagrip 2012-09-12 09:33
The March for Independence on 22nd September has been successfully posted on comments re Ed Balls and TUC article in The Herald. WELL DONE!!
 
 
# Jim Johnston 2012-09-12 10:06
I'm not surprised at the turnout for Catalonian Independence, they are pasionate and at least internally (Spain), are well informed about this movement. They don't have the BBC, STV etc, and MSM to contend with.

I would also like to see posters and advertising of the Rally for Scottish Independence on display. That all takes money and it's not easy for many people finding that these days.
Anyway, rain or shine I'll be there and I won't really wont be too surprised if there are muliples of the number who suffered the display at Hampden the other night.

o/t
I was interested to hear that someone from the EU is talking in circles on Newsnight about Scotlands position in Europe post Independence. The BBC thought it was the strongest warning / message yet from the EU, mind you that was the BBC.

Someone should whisper in the EU spokesmans ear that the Scots will have say about the EU as well following Independence. He and the BBC may well find there is no guarantee Scotland will be interested in full EU membership. EFTA and EEA are as far as I would go anyway. But that's a debate (referendum ?) and decision for an Independent Scotland to make.
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-09-12 11:52
The BBC are carrying this story - the fella from the EU talking about Catalonia's position - as though it applies equally to Scotland, but doesn't apply to the rUK. They seem, unsurprisingly, to take the blinkered, London-centric view that Scotland will be a region leaving the UK (which will remain), rather than a country ending a union (resulting in two new, independent, countries on equal terms). It doesn't surprise me that politicians spin this tale, but I'm old enough to expect better from the BBC.
 
 
# Marga B 2012-09-12 12:45
Jiggsbro - Almunia, Vice President of the EC, has just corrected Olivier Bailly, the EC spokesman.

He has said that it is in fact "premature" to speculate on the consequences of a supposed future independence of Catalonia or any other region as regards its membership of the EU and the European rights of its citizens.

He says the legal services who had issued the statement did not take into account the usual practice of the EU when faced with cases not foreseen in the Treaty, which was to seek a special solution to suit the new circumstances, one example of which was the bail-out fund for the euro zone.

Also on a less optimistic note, the Madrid government has just announced that all welfare benefits will be in danger within 3 months if Spain does not start to grow or create jobs. Fat chance!
 
 
# Old Smokey 2012-09-12 13:13
Its quite interesting comparing a few bits.
I watched last nights Newsnight Scotland, with the small interview with Olivier Bailly, who works in a Department called 'Spokesperson's Service - Growth & Jobs'. He was introduced as a 'Senior Spokesperson' well I suppose he is - for 'Growth and Jobs' that is!. Basically this guy found himself ansering questions about Catalonia. Mr Bailly stated that there is no provision with the existing treaty as regards a 'Region' seceding from a member state. Then a journalist (not clear which) asked a similar question about Catelonia, but lumped in Scotland in the question. What followed was a badly edited piece by the BBC, but Mr Bailly continued to explain that a 'Region' would have to apply for membership. The reality of the situation was that he was the wrong person to answer questions as he was there to talk 'Growth and Jobs'. But the BBC took the opportunity at mischeif making, with the clever use of 'appears to say' to predicate the video package.

But now on the BBC website the story has been amended (updated at 13:20 ) First couple of paragraphs totting the 'Scotland would not automatically be part of the EU' line. But now an additional paragraph 'Mr Bailly has now said that his answer to a specific scenario was not an indication of commission thinking on a possible independent Scotland.' and further down the online story 'Mr Bailly insisted that the Catalonia issue he had addressed could not be used as an indication of the commission's general view'
So the sound of back peddling is loud and clear, the sound of the BBC apologising for missleading - well thats another matter
 
 
# Training Day 2012-09-12 13:30
That's the BBC tactic, OS. Punt the lie, amend or cover yourself later minus the same profile afforded to the lie. That way you can claim objectivity and 'prove' it too.

This tactic was used most noticeably when the BBC repeatedly attacked Salmond over Murdoch in the run up to the council elections. On the eve of the elections, they conducted their own vox pop in Kelvingrove Park from which they concluded that adverse media coverage of Salmond/Murdoch had not influenced voter thinking. The perfect squared circle in propaganda terms..see, we covered the 'issue' and it hasn't had any effect. Who says so? Us!
 
 
# Marga B 2012-09-12 13:38
To be fair, see my comment above, Bailly has also been corrected by his boss, and has had to admit that EU law may say what it likes but there is also a tradition of making new law for new situations in the EU.

Some say Spain is leaning on the EU not to encourage separatists, not surprised, if the only 2 rich regions (after Madrid) leave, it will be totally skint. Correction, even more skint.
 
 
# tartanfever 2012-09-12 15:05
If you want to see what OS is talking about, our old friend 'newssniffer' have the articles side by side on their website so you can do a comparison. It's available here:

www.newssniffer.co.uk/.../1

Also following on from TD's remarks, this absolutely nails it on the head for me why our protests to the BBC have to be about quality, not bias.

The bias claim will be refuted with a 'he said/she said' argument of accusations that will lead nowhere - as outlined in TD's remarks. However, questions the quality of the report - how in depth is it ? how many quotes or parties were interviewed or even the original questioning ? who is making the comments ? what is their role ? and so forth then you force the BBC to come up with an answer, not just revert back to the same old 'bias' retort that they have ready and waiting.
 
 
# hiorta 2012-09-12 10:09
Scotland's right to self-determination is not dependent on marching in the street, although this does provide a focal point.

Scots, by themselves, will bring it about by their determination to stand with other nations as equals, having rejected the derisory Union as being another delaying tactic.

Many folk who would gladly march are disabled, infirm, elderly, while others give their time to care for such folk and just cannot easily go and march.

Independence is right, it is just and needed for Scots to reach their potential unhindered by the repressive desires of foreigners.
 
 
# Leader of the Pack 2012-09-12 11:51
Actually yes it is! It is dependent on a cohesion of numbers coordinated to act at specific times to press a specific agenda which accumulates into an overall movement towards an ambitious goal. Without coordination agendas focal points and progression it will end up being nothing but wishful thinking and regret. Wakey wakey!
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-09-12 13:40
The specific time is autumn 2014. The specific agenda is voting yes in the referendum. The ambitious goal is independence. Neither the time, the agenda nor the ultimate goal are dependent on marching in the streets.
 
 
# Leader of the Pack 2012-09-12 14:50
But the RESULT WILL BE!
 
 
# James01 2012-09-12 10:35
So there was a 1.5 million strong demonstration in Europe yesterday yet it barely got a mention on any news outlet in the UK. If this isn't evidence of the British media suppressing the news I don't know what is.

This story features on the front page of many well known European newspaper websites including the ones below.

www.lefigaro.fr/ - France
www.zeit.de/index - Germany
www.corriere.it/ - France

Try finding it on the front page of a British newspaper website.
 
 
# GrassyKnollington 2012-09-12 10:40
Anyone who wants to download and print a poster for the Scottish independence march can do so here

www.independenceforscotland.com/.../

Stick one in your house window or your car and if you can, print out a few extra and distribute them.

Joan McAlpine also highlighted the march in yesterdays Daily Record.

dailyrecord.co.uk/.../...
 
 
# Robabody 2012-09-12 20:59
Printed, thank you GK for the pointer.
 
 
# Seagetagrip 2012-09-12 11:40
The Herald has now removed the post on the Ed Balls article re the March 22nd September! Censorship rules the Herald
 
 
# exel 2012-09-12 11:43
Leader of the Pack 2012-09-12 08:05
“The rally on the 22nd will be as poorly attended as the campaign to advertise has been! If you dont read this web site you will not be aware a rally has been planned! The failure to make this known mainstream will result in a failure of the rally to impress anybody. The campaign for Independence better step up a couple of gears or we are in for a very huge disappointment come the referendum!”

Exactly correct, that is where the master strategist is going wrong. Sitting at the centre of the web waiting for the poor flies to stumble unwittingly onto the sticky stuff does not supply a banquet for the spider.
 
 
# G. P. Walrus 2012-09-12 12:17
Er, that's exactly how spiders feed.
 
 
# Breeks 2012-09-12 11:53
I'd like to re-tag Cirsiums post - 20 reasons why I'm an Independentist - newscatalonia.com/.../...

It's written by a Catalan, but every word could speak for Scotland too. (I hope you pick it up Newsnet).
 
 
# mutterings 2012-09-12 12:08
Quoting Leader of the Pack:
The rally on the 22nd will be as poorly attended as the campaign to advertise has been!
The March and Rally has been organized and financed by volunteers. It is not part of the Yes Campaign or the SNP.

Any type of advertising relies on funding and volunteers. It's us that need to donate and distribute leaflets. Find out how you can help: www.independenceforscotland.com/.../
 
 
# Leader of the Pack 2012-09-12 15:34
Quoting mutterings:
Quoting Leader of the Pack:
The rally on the 22nd will be as poorly attended as the campaign to advertise has been!
The March and Rally has been organized and financed by volunteers. It is not part of the Yes Campaign or the SNP.

Any type of advertising relies on funding and volunteers. It's us that need to donate and distribute leaflets. Find out how you can help: www.independenceforscotland.com/.../


It all sounds well intentioned but badly thought out and organised! All that will be acheived is yet another propaganda gift to Unionism! You now HAVE to get out the numbers or the entire exersize will be an OWN GOAL! The entire Independence movement better get cohesive or its going to keep tripping over itself. I hope Im wrong and the turn out is spectacular but Im not seeing how its going to be possible with the serious lack of advertising and knowledge of the event! It all looks like a local vicar trying to motivate folk to attend a church social by going door to door with pamphlets!
 
 
# Seagetagrip 2012-09-12 12:13
Exel
When you are dealing with a politically corrupt press who are operating downright censorship, it puts difficulties in the way
of advertising anything to do with Independence.
However, we are developing ways round these problems as you will find out.
 
 
# Leader of the Pack 2012-09-12 12:30
Oh good lets hope it reveals itself before the 22nd then eh?
 
 
# exel 2012-09-12 12:46
Quoting Seagetagrip:
Exel
When you are dealing with a politically corrupt press who are operating downright censorship, it puts difficulties in the way
of advertising anything to do with Independence.
However, we are developing ways round these problems as you will find out.



I think you are getting the functions of the media mixed up, intentionally I am sure.

To persuade a newspaper, for example, to run an advertisement they need paying.
To report a political demonstration, they allowed using their judgement in public interest. Paying them not to report public interest would, in my opinion, be dishonest and illegal.

Would “ways round these problems” be in place before or after the vote on independence?
 
 
# flyingscotsman 2012-09-12 13:36
There should be an article on this site about the event about a week before it happens. There are probably a good few people who just read the articles or download them in an RSS reader and they may not really know much about the 22nd September march.
 
 
# Barontorc 2012-09-12 13:58
Ever seen a starving spider excell?
 
 
# J Wil 2012-09-12 14:47
Barosso was speaking to the EU parliament today about new rules he would like to see. Basically about more integration and federalism. He said those that were not keen on it would have to make their own arrangements (the UK?).

I am sure he also covered the ins and the outs of EU membership too, but I didn't hear enough of it to understand what he was getting at.

Oh, and Brillo said on his programme today that the BBC are to start a new one specifically about Euroupean politics. I wonder what that's all about?
 
 
# Marga B 2012-09-12 16:06
J Wil, the EU has apparently gone back to "no comment" on internal enlargement, apparantly Spain is livid at "interference" in its internal affairs and Vice-President Almunia has whipped the bureaucrats back into line. Barroso though might still be making unwise comments.

He's also saying that no comment can be made on the demo in Barcelona because we don't know what it really represents apart from discontent.

Which word of "Catalonia, the next state in Europe" in huge letters at the head of the demo, does Almunia (Spanish socialist) not understand?
 
 
# Seagetagrip 2012-09-12 16:19
Exel
As previously posted, the story regarding the Catalonian Demo figured on the FRONT pages of atleast three prominent European newspapers.
This would suggest to my feeble brain that the Editor of the Herald, for instance, is paid by his American owners NOT to give prominence to stories which would otherwise be in the public interest such as the Catalonian Independence story and it`s obvious relevance to the current situation in Scotland.
 
 
# exel 2012-09-12 18:39
Quoting Seagetagrip:
Exel
As previously posted, the story regarding the Catalonian Demo figured on the FRONT pages of atleast three prominent European newspapers.
This would suggest to my feeble brain that the Editor of the Herald, for instance, is paid by his American owners NOT to give prominence to stories which would otherwise be in the public interest such as the Catalonian Independence story and it`s obvious relevance to the current situation in Scotland.


This continuous “whinging” about what is reported in the various media outlets in Scotland is becoming tiresome.

What do you want, all editors to be issued with a daily “Pravda like” acceptable list for dissemination to the mushrooms in Scotland?

Reminds me of my time in Singapore in the 60s, when the national radio started off anything with a political flavour using an excruciating jingle, “in this multi lingual multi cultural society”
 
 
# Leader of the Pack 2012-09-13 07:18
Quoting exel:
Quoting Seagetagrip:
Exel
As previously posted, the story regarding the Catalonian Demo figured on the FRONT pages of atleast three prominent European newspapers.
This would suggest to my feeble brain that the Editor of the Herald, for instance, is paid by his American owners NOT to give prominence to stories which would otherwise be in the public interest such as the Catalonian Independence story and it`s obvious relevance to the current situation in Scotland.


This continuous “whinging” about what is reported in the various media outlets in Scotland is becoming tiresome.

What do you want, all editors to be issued with a daily “Pravda like” acceptable list for dissemination to the mushrooms in Scotland?

Reminds me of my time in Singapore in the 60s, when the national radio started off anything with a political flavour using an excruciating jingle, “in this multi lingual multi cultural society”


Isnt that what we have now? hence the whinging and complaints!
 
 
# Galen10 2012-09-13 11:21
You may be content to dismiss this as "whinging" excel, but many of us are not.

Scotland deserves better from it's media generally, and its broadsheets in particular, than it gets. This particular issue is of genuine interest, given the obvious parallels between Catalonia and Scotland, and the all too public ruckus with relation to EU membership it has brought forth; another issue of direct and central importance to the prospects of Scottish independence.

The issue (which you appear to have totally missed) is not that people want a controlled media, they want a media which is not overwhelmingly dominated by reactionary unionism, which represents a relatively small percentage of Scottish voters.

We should of course expect little better of the woeful MSM in the UK, as recent events with the Murdoch's, phone hacking, Hillsboro, etc, etc amply demonstrate.

There is something profoundly rotten with the whole media structure within our society, when none of the newspapers in Scotland support independence, or even if it comes to it FFA, despite the fact large sections of the population support both.

Similarly, you don't have to be a cybernat to think that the BBC, for all its good points, is woefully biased against independence as a concept, and the SNP as a party. Balance does not consist of having 3 anti-independence voices representing Labour, Tories and LD's, and one SNP voice. Nor does it consist on ignoring the rally in Barcelona, and them jumping on the erroneous story trotted out by unionists that the EU has used qustions after the rally to call into question whether successor states would have EU membership.

In the end, we are NOT well served by our media, and it is an important matter. The current situation in Scotland is much more akin to the Singaporean case, otherwise there would be much more variety on offer than the same, tired unionism trotted out by ALL the major papers and broadcasters.
 
 
# Jiggsbro 2012-09-12 19:11
Quoting Seagetagrip:
This would suggest to my feeble brain that the Editor of the Herald, for instance, is paid by his American owners NOT to give prominence to stories which would otherwise be in the public interest such as the Catalonian Independence story and it`s obvious relevance to the current situation in Scotland.


To my brain, it suggests the editors of the European newspapers consider their readers would be interested in the story, while the editor of the Herald considers his readers would not. Newspapers - particularly in the current climate - make commercial decisions.

For example, you're interested in the story but - I guess - you're not a Herald reader. If you're representative of people interested in the story, what's the point of the Herald covering it? Would you have bought a copy on the off-chance it was covered on page 17? Would putting that story - rather than one of more relevance to its readership - on the front cover have meant more sales? I haven't seen a paper today, but I have a hunch they went with Andy Murray on the front page. I also have a hunch that that sold more papers than the Catalonian demo would have.
 
 
# Marga B 2012-09-12 17:10
OT (and I should be working ...)

Here's a furious article in Le Monde this afternoon with an exposé about how the Spanish public and right-wing media hid or misrepresented the independence rally yesterday:

lemonde.fr/.../...

Do you think they could do the same for the UK media? At least it's interesting to see what other countries see as "normal" media behaviour.
 
 
# Marga B 2012-09-12 17:40
Sorry another OT, the 3 excellent MEPs representing Catalan parties have got together today to appeal for European support for an independence referendum, with this statement:

"The Catalans have the right to construct a new socially just, economically prosperous and environmentally sustainable society within the EU".

Sound familiar?
 
 
# Breeks 2012-09-12 17:51
That's interesting Marga B. Rather ironic they should comment that the BBC were there...

Interesting to note too that this wasn't merely a demonstration to support independence, but it also took place on the day of the annual Catalonia Day festival. I'm not looking to make any point about that, merely make the observation that the enthusiastic 1.5 million turnout probably isn't a good yardstick to set against whatever turnout we get on 22nd, when there's no similar day of festival in the background.
 
 
# Marga B 2012-09-12 22:39
No, and the organisers, rising from the ashes of a historical nationalist group, the Assamblea Nacional Catalana, had been working day and night throughout the territory for about 2 years to achieve this result. These things don't just happen.

Also OT but interesting, short video on internal EU enlargement - don't know if genuine or just guessing:

www.youtube.com/.../
 
 
# Breeks 2012-09-13 12:10
I didn't mean any criticism of the Catalans Marga B, quite the reverse, - but we don't have a similar day of festival to get our own Independence march off to such a good start, and I think it might help swell numbers if we did.
The Catalans have used a celebration to express themselves, whereas our similar expression already feels more like a protest. We should watch, listen and learn...
 
 
# Diabloandco 2012-09-12 18:07
 
 
# oldnat 2012-09-12 18:34
EU Commission withdraw yesterday's comments on accession.

www.alynsmith.eu/.../

“The position of the Commission remains unchanged and has been set out clearly, including in replies to Parliamentary Questions. In the hypothetical scenario of a part of a European Union MS wishing to leave that MS, it is first and foremost an internal matter within that MS to define the arrangements. There are several theoretical scenarios envigeable under international law. The Commission cannot speculate on which choices would be retained: in any case is not our business. The reference to one scenario in reply to a question yesterday cannot be taken as an indication of any Commission view on which scenario might apply in any hypothetical case.”

(My emphasis on the several possibilities bit).

Also, to add to the complexity, the ECJ may not let us be thrown out of the EU. We'd have to be recognised as members first, then (if Scots wanted to leave) negotiate the departure.

eutopialaw.com/2011/11/14/685/
 
 
# govanite 2012-09-12 21:13
Time to ask the hard counterpart questions, like what will the impact be on the CFP if Scotland leaves the EU?
 
 
# sneckedagain 2012-09-12 21:35
O/T

ALERT

BBC has announced several times this evenng that unemployment has risen in Scotland and dropped in England
ITV has announced that unemployment has risen across the whole UK except in London
 
 
# Keef 2012-09-15 04:48
SO why oh why are the Proclaimers not in the line up to play at the 22nd rally?

It's their home gig for goodness sake.

Has anyone asked them?
 
 
# Keep UTG 2012-09-15 05:52
Quoting Keef:
SO why oh why are the Proclaimers not in the line up to play at the 22nd rally?

It's their home gig for goodness sake.

Has anyone asked them?


Yes,they have been asked,they are on tour or else they would`ve played.
 

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