By a Newsnet reporter

Scottish Secretary Michael Moore has launched an attack on Scottish independence by claiming that independence would have left Scotland ‘too small’ to remove Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi.

Mr Moore claimed that independence would result in a "diminished" Scotland with the country having no influence on the international stage.  He said a "separate Scotland could not have protected Libyans from Gaddafi".

Mr Moore described how UK diplomats, politicians and officials had worked together ensuring the UK could assist in Libya.  The senior Lib Dem MP claimed that an independent “small Scotland” would have been unable to assist.

He said:

"I think people in Scotland would agree we should not lose that influence through the 'small Scotland' approach of the Scottish government."

"Our experience in Libya proves we shouldn't be looking to downsize Scotland's international influence. We should be proud of it and prepared to use it to achieve good where we can."

"The Scottish government needs to answer exactly what its defence force would look like outside the UK and whether it would be part of international memberships like Nato."

"Scotland deserves to know whether it is going to be part of making the world more secure or simply watching from the sidelines in the future."

Mr Moore’s comments follow the summary execution of Gaddafi in Libya after he was captured by rebel soldiers last Thursday.  The use of the death of the former dictator and his sons in order to attack independence was described by an SNP spokesman as "bizarre" and "tasteless".

A spokesman for the First Minister said: "This bizarre statement from Michael Moore is as inaccurate as it is tasteless - he has shown a complete lack of judgment in issuing it."

"The SNP and Scottish government fully supported the military action in Libya because it was endorsed by the international community through a Security Council Resolution - we opposed the disastrous and illegal war in Iraq which was so enthusiastically backed by the Tories, the Lib Dems' coalition partners."

Describing Mr Moore’s comments as ill-informed and ignorant the spokesman added:

"Michael Moore's British nationalism is so insular and ill-informed that he appears to be ignorant of the fact that some 17 countries took part in Operation Unified Protector to protect the people of Libya from Gaddafi's oppression, including a range of small nations such as Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway - and non-Nato countries including Sweden."

"While people celebrate the liberation of Libya, all that Michael Moore can do is obsess about the SNP government, run down our friends and neighbours abroad, and repeat the same discredited and negative arguments that the people of Scotland have long-since rejected."


# Holebender 2011-10-24 05:57
Ochone ochone, we're just too wee. :'(
# ButeHouse 2011-10-25 00:53
Quoting Holebender:
Ochone ochone, we're just too wee. :'(

Moore's remarks really are insane as well as hugely inaccurate and insulting to a number of small countries who played their part.

But does this Oxford University graduate actually believe that Scots are willing to pay the price of child poverty, fuel poverty, poor health, low life expectancy, miserable pensions, poor transport infrastructure, decades of high unemployment and a host of other degradations over our life times just so we can crow about having influence on the world stage as part of the belligerent UK.

We DON'T CARE about world influence of the military type, we want decent jobs, decent housing, and an end to child poverty and poverty in general.

We'll be happy to get our worldwide applause in the field of new medical advances for which we are famous, in engineering and in inventions.

STOP THE WORLD as Winnie once said....WE WANT TO GET ON!

# Roll_On_2011 2011-10-24 06:19
I have only one thing to say about Micky:

Is i chuileag bhuidhe bhuachair as àirde srann.

Say’s it all really.
# robmcdonald 2011-10-24 07:02
Quoting Roll_On_2011:
Is i chuileag bhuidhe bhuachair as àirde srann.

Say’s it all really.

Haaa ha ha ha ha, I had to get Google to translate that for me (to my shame). Brilliant Roll on!
# Lintie 2011-10-28 20:56
Quoting robmcdonald:
Quoting Roll_On_2011:
Is i chuileag bhuidhe bhuachair as àirde srann.

Say’s it all really.

Haaa ha ha ha ha, I had to get Google to translate that for me (to my shame). Brilliant Roll on!

(With a sheepish expression) I can't find Scots Gaelic in Google to translate for me. How did you do it, Rob?
# Macart 2011-10-24 07:14
Spot on! Ha Ha Ha Ha...
# whitburnsfinest 2011-10-24 16:22
HA!! That was done in style, Roll_On! :-D
# RJBH 2011-10-24 06:21
I welcome Moores comment .. if only to highlight that Scotland ..apart from our own internal agenda for Scotland.. we need to start thinking about our own foreign policy..Whatever "Britains" foreign policy was/is needs to be changed for an Independent Scotland...I for one propose that Scotland along with 2/3rds of the worlds counties recognise Palestine within its 1967 borders... and when we take our place (as 195) at the UN we do so with the intention of using our influence towards peaceful solutions rather than "Britains" military might to slavishly support the whims of the US and Zionism.
# mealer 2011-10-24 06:22
You would think this man would have the sense to shut up.
# Holebender 2011-10-24 06:32
Why would you think that? There is no evidence from his past behaviour to indicate that the man has any sense at all.
# Macart 2011-10-24 07:18
Not that I'd mind watching from the sidelines, but really does that tumshie actually think that an SDF, much like the Danes, Newzealanders, Australians, Norwegians etc, etc, ad infinitum don't contribute? In what mad parallel universe would Scots not lend a hand when folks were in trouble. He insults our allies and near neighbours and he insults us! He's in the perfect place right now, under a Tory thumb and completely clueless!!!!
# UpSpake 2011-10-24 07:19
It's not the attack that is bizarre it's Moore who is bizarre and entirely - irrelevent !. Where other than the compliant MSM and the BBC does this odious creature appear ?.
Sorry, I forgot - WASTEMONSTER !.
# Scottish republic 2011-10-24 07:19
"I think people in Scotland would agree we should not lose that influence through the 'small Scotland' approach of the Scottish government."

Scotland has a small tiny degree of influence because of the Scottish parliament. Most Europeans thought Scotland was part of England till May 5th. Most Europeans think differently now.

The comments are risible in a Monty Python way and I have to agree in a non-Monty Python way they are indeed, "bizarre".

He's clutching at very odd straws indeed.
# whitburnsfinest 2011-10-24 16:25
"I think people in Scotland would agree we should not lose that influence through the 'small Scotland' approach of the Scottish government."

Er... Mikey love, Scotland doesn't agree with you at all - that's why you were royally toasted in May. Not quite got the picture there yet, have you? Poor lamb...

Hey, maybe Arbroath could lure poor wee confused Mikey into the DARKENED ROOM - and just leave him there for the sake of his fragile wee mind?
# J Wil 2011-10-24 07:28
I am surprised that Moore wants to highlight Scotland's "diminished " role. Nothing has diminished Scotland's role in world affairs more than being part of the union, when you consider that representation in Europe by Scottish ministers was refused several times by London; eg. when fishing and climate change were being discussed Westminster did not think it approprate that Scotland would have direct representation even although it had much to offer (in climate matters) and much to lose (in fishing policy). Other contacts with foreign diplomats have also been to Scotland's disadvantage when UK diplomats promote England first and foremost and allow the myth to be perpetuated that Britain is England.

Basically Mr Moore lives in an alternative universe. He is a crank and should be marched off by the men in white coats before he does any more damage to Scotland's interests!
# Keep UTG 2011-10-24 07:41
I would keep Moore where he is,he`s actually doing the reverse of damaging Scotland's interests, by advertising his stupidity he makes the job of Independence so much easier.

Long may he reign!
# J Wil 2011-10-24 07:57
The tragedy is he is never taken to task by the media about his stupid outpourings.
# Old Smokey 2011-10-24 07:42
Moore's comments are very bizarre, considering that Norway and Denmark, 2 of the many other NATO forces that took part in Libya had attack aircraft stationed in Italy and were very much involved on the attack on Gadaffi
We dont hear much of that as we have a media that likes to allow Cameron to blow his own trumpet. But the reality is it was not 'Britain' alone what won this little war!
# farrochie 2011-10-24 09:45
"the attack on Gadaffi"

Surely some mistake, you mean "the protection of Libyan civilians".
# Lianachan 2011-10-24 10:05
Indeed. Obama reassured us all ages ago that the operation in Libya wasn't about regime change.....
# Alx1 2011-10-24 07:44
We have no influence on the international stage now.
Did we have influence when Ted gave away Scotland's fishing grounds?
Do we have enough MEP's representing Scotland's interests in Europe?
Do we rely on D. Cameron to represent us on the world stage like he did on the steps of the white house?

Point being that we have no influence now, but being Independence we will be treated as an equal partner on the world stage and then we will gain our influence we deserve.
# Islegard 2011-10-24 07:45
England didn't remove Gadaffi and for Moore to claim so insults first and foremost the Libyan freedom fighters as well as all other participating nations. Then we get on to the cost of the war paid for by Scotland's resources. It has also added billions to the deficit and to the national debt they have had to borrow more to pay for it. Is this how a prudent government prioritises it's budget? Billions to a foreign war while the NHS in England is cash strapped? Do all the public workers who are having their pensions changed so wars can be financed feel happy about this? They wouldn't have been able to pay for it if Scotland was independent.

So the correct statement is an Independent England without Scotland's resources would be too small and poor to have participated in Libya.

Of course what it does demonstrate is a country with a small population of 6 million people taking back their country and having freedom.
# Blanco 2011-10-24 07:47
Ah yes, we'd be as small and insignificant as Denmark, population 5million, whose aircraft flew 913 combat sorties over Libya, as opposed to the mighty world-dominating United Kingdom, whose vast force flew.... 970 combat sorties over Libya.
# Wee-Scamp 2011-10-24 08:47
Nice one.
# tartanfever 2011-10-24 09:02
Nearly Blanco - the Danish with 6 x F16's or whatever it is they have, hit 913 targets, while the UK, with double the number of fighters and a whole load of helicopters etc hit 970 targets.

The Danes flew more sorties, but they did an equivalent job of the UK.

This coming after Lord West spluttered 'not like bloody Denmark and Belgium '- his response to proposed budget cuts which may make the UK a 'second-rate' military power.
# chiefy1724 2011-10-24 11:34
And, While we're at it:

Typhoon Eurofighter - (Sources Vary between)GBP 90m - GBP125m per aircraft
Danish F16A/B - USD 19m per copy = GBP 12m

Was the Danish Air Force Too Small, Too Stupid, Too ineffectual to participate in a UN-Mandated Operation ?
# SEUMAS31 2011-10-24 07:48
Piece of advice for Moore and Alexander, when Scotland becomes independent, please emigrate to the country of your choice, preferably outer Mongolia.
# Exile 2011-10-24 08:21
"Scotland small? Our multifom, infinite Scotland small?" And while on the subject of MacDiarmid, he had a wonderful poem in reference to the likes of Moore, 'The Parrot Cry', containing the unforgettable line "It's time the claith was owre the parrot".
# cirsium 2011-10-24 10:13
"It's time the claith was owre the parrot".
thanks for that quote Exile. Love it. I think it could be applied to BBC Scotland as well.
# Clarinda 2011-10-24 11:05
That would be the "ex-parrot" I hope - bereft and pining for the House of Lords?
# weegie38 2011-10-24 08:48
I'm coming to the conclusion that Moore may simply be the dumbest individual in history to hold the office of Scottish Secretary. Given that his predecessors include the likes of Des Browne and Helen Liddell, that's a heck of an achievement!
# Puskas 2011-10-24 11:31
Quoting weegie38:
I'm coming to the conclusion that Moore may simply be the dumbest individual in history to hold the office of Scottish Secretary. Given that his predecessors include the likes of Des Browne and Helen Liddell, that's a heck of an achievement!

Have you forgotten McElhone.. Glasgow South, Labour.
# Suomi 2011-10-24 08:49
Rather than downsize Scotlands international influence,I have noticed that independence enhances a nation international influnce and collboration.Recently I read in a Bangladesh newspaper that Palestine was applying for full membership of the Uinited Bangladesh fully supports their application.Good luck to themI just wish that Scotland (the invisible nation) could also take part on the world stage.Since we are excluded from almost every international institution,I wonder how much we could downsize Scotland international influence?

mr Moore is a very strange man who seems to have a death wish.he has certainly been promoted beyond his lim itd ability.
# Macart 2011-10-24 09:25

Considering that there were delegates and representatives from about 20 countries at the conference, I'd say Mr Moore's comments on Scotland's clout or lack thereof on the international stage may be slightly off target. The interest in our country, as a hopefully emergent independent nation, is certainly attracting a lot of prospective new friends from overseas.
# Roll_On_2011 2011-10-24 09:07
John Swinney’s closing speech from conference.

We could be sixth-richest nation in the world, says Swinney:

Scotland would be the sixth-wealthiest country in the world if it stopped “subsidising the rest of the UK”, finance secretary John Swinney has claimed.

In his closing speech at the SNP conference in Inverness, Mr Swinney challenged those who believe that Scotland cannot afford to go independent by arguing that the country would flourish if it had control over North Sea oil revenue.

Mr Swinney also said that Scotland already contributes more in tax than it gets back in expenditure.

He added: “The figures show that, with a geographical share of our offshore resources, Scotland would be the sixth-wealthiest country in the world – ten places ahead of the UK at 16th.”

We could be the sixth-richest nation in the world This is what the Unionists don’t want the Scots people to know. The British Institution kept that fact hidden for over thirty years. The oil won’t last, you are to poor, and you are to wee, this and more ad infinitum. And they are again repeating the same wearisome lies.

Moore is just the latest in a long succession of the cycle of brainwashing and he won’t be the last.

This message should be shouted from the rooftops across Scotland.

# Islegard 2011-10-24 09:30
Of course you would have to ask yourself does Scotland have aspirations to pretend to be a world military power? How many of the 194 or so independent nations on Earth participated in Libya?
# pa_broon74 2011-10-24 09:36
Michael Moore seems more and more to be a weird comedy trumpet for the tories. I have an image of sniggering conservative MP's going to the mans office and pulling a string out of his back as it slowly disappears back inside he produces an odd disonnant honking noise which is parroted faithfully by the BBC.

Meanwhile, we in the real world wonder what the hell he's talking about. It seems to me, each honking comment (I'm being generous) he makes is more bizarre than the last.

Long may it continue I say, it does the unionist cause no favours and makes me smile.
# tartanfever 2011-10-24 10:07
You have a wonderful imagination Pa, thats just brilliant.
# Lianachan 2011-10-24 10:09
More a kazoo than a trumpet.
# pa_broon74 2011-10-24 10:51
I was aiming for one of those comedy clown trumpets things but the couldn't remember the name.

A kazoo will do though.

# whitburnsfinest 2011-10-24 17:12
Hahaha! Moore the Kazoo has a bit of a ring to it, no? This thread has had me in fits of laughter. You lot are brilliant!
# Roll_On_2011 2011-10-24 09:41

London named fraud capital of UK

Figures are based on analysis of information from the National Hunter anti-fraud data sharing system and the Insurance Hunter database.

And that’s even without the inclusion of the big house at Westmidden, the house that has red seats in one room and green seats in the other.

It also appears they left out those casinos in the City as well.
# Islegard 2011-10-24 10:01
When they are teaching Scottish history in a couple of hundred years Michael Moore will be read about as Scotland's Benedict Arnold.
# J Wil 2011-10-24 10:27
It's a bit hard to fathom why Moore would use this as an example of how Scotland would lose out if it was independent. However, we know Cameron is on a roll over his 'success' in Libya, he's never the one to play down his apparent achievements and Moore, I think, is trying to capitalise on this. I don't think Scots will be too impressed. Moore is in a self-delusory bubble.
# whitburnsfinest 2011-10-24 17:34
"Moore is in a self-delusory bubble."

I believe the medical term is LibDemitis.... one of the symptoms being shooting yourself in the foot repeatedly. So sad...such a terrible affliction!
# Sundance 2011-10-24 10:54
The word - Dunderheid - springs quickly to mind!
# MAcandroid 2011-10-24 12:07
Or just plain "Bampot"
# Caledonian Lass 2011-10-24 22:59
Quoting MAcandroid:
Or just plain "Bampot"

That was exactly what I was thinking, MAcandroid.

Mickey Moose, Cameron's message boy, is just a pain in the posterior. Still, the more inanely he rants, the more yes votes we'll get for the Independence Referendum.
# pmcrek 2011-10-24 10:56
I heard Mr Moore was too wee too poor and too stupid to defend british people from dictatorial Tories (emphasis mine).
# pa_broon74 2011-10-24 11:02
The thing is and its a very basic mistake. Unionist supporters can't get their head round not having a nuclear deterrent, they don't understand the notion of being entirely disinterested in being able to project military might abroad.

They just don't see the Scottish view point, with the mindset they have, they'd argue that Ireland (for example) has no sway around the globe, measured by the notion they have no nuclear submarines, cruise missiles or blat at any negotiating tables etc.

They totally ignore the cultural exports of Ireland and how they are regarded as a people, welcomed all over the world not to mention the effects of the massive Irish Diaspora over the decades (mostly because of imperialist machinations by you know what...)

I'm not even sure the majority of English people are overly interested in projecting Westminster's imperialist wet dreams around the globe, its a British thing and nothing to do with any actual country forming the UK.

Just a thin sliver of grasping capitalist Toadies (that's me the arch anti-socialist talking) desperately clinging on to the last vestiges of empire, indeed when people like Moore and Alexander open their gobs, if its not a kazoo we hear its the disonnant screech of unionist fingernails as they desperately claw at the rotting hulk that is Great Britain before it slips beneath the waves of history.

Gosh, how terribly melodramatic.

# J Wil 2011-10-24 11:18
It costs money to have sway.
# pa_broon74 2011-10-24 13:21
It depends on what kind of sway you want to have.

Arguably, it doesn't cost money, it costs consciounce, as in, how much a politician is willing to trade in for an advantage on the international stage?

That isn't the kind of sway we should be interested in.

The kind of sway i'm talking about is technological advance, cultural exchange and building bridges (not blowing them up.)

If you had to chose between the way Ireland (for example) behaves around the world or the UK, what would you choose?
# tartanfever 2011-10-24 13:38
good points Pa.

We want to be a forward thinking, inclusive and peaceful nation, an equal amongst equals.

As for holding sway internationally , lets do that by other nations recognising us as a fair, democratic and supportive nation rather than having the biggest arsenal.
# chiefy1724 2011-10-24 11:15
OK, fine, this is Defence.

Defence is a Reserved Matter.

How can Moore say that he is "Scotland's Man in the Cabinet" when all he seems to do is spend his time attacking the policies of the SNP and quite frankly Making Up Lies about what may or may not happen after Independence.

The same could be said about Stairheid Mags and "Team Scotland Union Police".

What is their purpose ? Elected to the Westminister Parliament, they should represent and respectively oppose the policies of that Government with respect to the Reserved matters.

The amount of time and effort that they spend however criticising the Democratically Elected Government of this Scotland, executing policies over which they have no right to (or in the case of e.g. Stairheid Mags and Cathy, actively abrogated their right to) say anything on because they are Devolved.

Michael Moore and Margaret Curran are the greatest recruiting sergeants that the SNP could wish for now that Elmer is a-hanging up his huntin' wifle and waiting for the call to "Another Place".

They oppose blindly, without reason, without logic. Their arguments are fatuous and phrased in a way that treats the Scottish People as barely-intelligent suboids fit only to deliver the means to Ermine as reward for "loyal" service to the Union.

Never Mind, The Day is Near
When Independence shall be Here.
# SlipperyP 2011-10-24 12:02
I think this comment was always going to come when the dictatorship fell in Libya, it was also a coincidence that the SNP conference was the talk 'o' toun.

We couldn't have that, lets drop an other stinker in the mix - Moore would have thought with his cronies.

Don't bite, it's exactly how they want us to react to such bile.
Their irrelevance is getting too them, snipping is their only option now (well has it not always).

ot, loved the speech, all the way from Thailand. Sorry I can't vote, but I will certainly be over for the party.
# Mei 2011-10-24 13:26
I hope you will all join me in wishing Michael Moore a happy birthday on All Hallows Eve (Halloween) next Sunday when children all over Scotland will be hollowing out Tumshies and Pumpkins in his honour.
# proudscot 2011-10-24 15:21
Quoting Mei:
I hope you will all join me in wishing Michael Moore a happy birthday on All Hallows Eve (Halloween) next Sunday when children all over Scotland will be hollowing out Tumshies and Pumpkins in his honour.

You know Mei, Come to think of it, maybe good old Guido Fawkes had the right idea when it comes to getting rid of the tumshies in the so-called Scotland Office, in keeping with Stephen Hawking's Big Bang Theory! If only, eh?
# Gordon Logan 2011-10-24 13:36
The man's raving. Nothing Gaddafi did was a bad as what NATO had done. Books and documentaries have demonstrated that Gaddafi had nothing to do with Lockerbie etc. Today's politicians are brainwashed and completely out of touch on so many things. Things were not nearly so bad before they started using neuro-linguistic programming in Whitehall.
# Angus Ogg 2011-10-24 14:45
Can anyone find a reference to when and where Moore is reputed to have made these remarks it does not appear any where else?

Surely this outlet is not making stuff up?
# Holebender 2011-10-24 15:01

Took me a couple of seconds to search Google News.
# Angus Ogg 2011-10-24 15:31
Quoting Holebender:

Took me a couple of seconds to search Google News.

Your speed and dexterity on the keys is quite breathtaking. I did Google but obviously I am not as good as you at the Googleing. I wonder why it has only appeared in the PA web site and not been reported on the MSM. It has to be one of the most tasteless remarks made yet.

It did appear in some of the MSM ah well, cest la vie.
# farrochie 2011-10-24 15:57
Quoting Angus Ogg:
Surely this outlet is not making stuff up?

A fair and important question Angus. We hope that NNS is never in the position to have that accusation pointed against it. This can only happen if NNS reporters verify and quote their sources.

Similarly for posters who are referring to information produced by others. We all need to make sure we post links to sources and verify our information.
# km 2011-10-24 14:59
Moore said:

"Scotland deserves to know whether it is going to be part of making the world more secure or simply watching from the sidelines in the future."

How, exactly, Mr Moore, does perpetrating an illegal war in Iraq make the world more secure? The world is less secure after invading Iraq, than it was before, because it has energised many more people against the "western establishment".

And how, exactly, Mr Moore, does promising to spend tens of billions of pounds on upgrading Trident, make the world more secure? There is no such thing as a "nuclear deterrent" any more, when the "enemy" is composed of small, geographically mobile terrorist groups.

And how can the UK government spout hypocrisy about non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, while committing to Trident? All signatories to the non-proliferation treaty are bound to reducing their own nuclear arsenals, not to spending more than 100 billion upgrading them.

Just 1 of those billions would have paid for Longannet.

And as for your Mr Murphy's statements on "empire". The sun did eventually set on the empire around 50 years ago. As it does on all empires.

Rant over for today.
# Fourfolksache 2011-10-24 16:34
Slightly off topic but today's latest rant from Moore the clown is to say that even with all of the oil revenue to date we would still be skint! His analysis supported by the wonderful civil servants who work for him (against us!) is beautifully flawed! Read Stephen Noon's excellent analysis at
If only the MSM scrutinised claims like this with even half objective analysis!!!
# Grenscot 2011-10-24 20:22
Brilliant. I love the punchline
Once again, the Scotland Office shoots and scores a spectacular own goal. It must be the most costly press release ever issued. Although future Scots will thank Mr Moore, because he has single-handedly saved an independent Scotland a rather handy £19,000,000,000. So all I can add is, keep up the good work!"
# doonhamer 2011-10-24 16:53
What BritNat general of the influential BritNat army was put in charge of this important mission?

None, you say

Surely then it must have been a West Point trained, Pentagon controlled American in charge?

Not this time.

Amazing, then they must have had to select a French or German general to appease the Europeans?

No sir, not one of them

So who was in charge of this vital defense of democracy and led the mission to free the people of Libya?

It was a Canadian. A citizen of a country that was formerly in the empire and became independent in 1867.

They were not too wee nor too stupid to lead the mission nor to have significant influence in the world.

Too wee, too stupid ... that appears to be the epitaph of Moore and the Scottish LibDem Party.
# Legerwood 2011-10-24 16:56
"Scotland's international influence.."

What was he on when he made this statement?
# Teri 2011-10-24 18:20
Since this man Moore, as Secretary of State for Scotland, will lead the governments argument for remaining in the Union, we have no cause to worry. The Independence argument is won.
# Keep UTG 2011-10-24 20:00
Have just read this about Britain being complicit in sending Libyans back to Gaddafi.

This is what happens when you`re a big world player obviously!
# Purr 2011-10-24 20:14
Is there no Beginning to this Man's Talent
# 0din 2011-10-24 21:39
@ roll-on-2022 The use of a Gaelic proverb was a great idea so here is another one the SNP and it's supporters should use in my opinion - Is fheàrr fheuchainn na bhith san dùil in English it means "It's better to try than to hope"
# Angus 2011-10-26 11:56
Och, so we cannae participate in wars in Libya and Iraq and the likes any more, to protect the flow of oil to...erm to protect the civilians of these countries.
This is a huge blow for the Scots who have spent 300 years as cannon fodder.

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