By a Newsnet reporter

Labour's incoherence and confusion on Scotland deepened this weekend after leader Ed Miliband made a speech in which he claimed that UK coalition policies would cost the average family £580 a year. 

However, despite this admission, Mr Miliband then appeared to contradict himself by insisting that Scots were still better off under a Westminster government.

The Labour leader made the comments in a speech to the Welsh Labour conference in Cardiff where he cited a study from the think tank the Institute for Fiscal Studies, which showed that the average family with children will lose £580 a year from April due to changes being implemented by the Conservative - Lib Dem Coalition.

Mr Miliband said: "On current forecasts, the average worker will be earning the same in three years' time as they were ten years ago, but the weekly shop costs more, it costs a lot more to keep the house warm and we have a government that doesn't believe that its job is to stand up for ordinary people against powerful vested interests.

"What is their answer to the crisis of living standards? Cutting taxes for the banks while they raise taxes on ordinary families, higher VAT, cuts to tax credits.

"As the IFS have confirmed today, this April the Government is hitting an average family with children for £580.  Choosing to squeeze the squeezed middle yet again."

His comments follow a recent pledge he gave when speaking in the House of Commons in January in which he promised the Coalition government "100%" support in its fight to maintain the Union.  Like the Conservative led Coalition, Mr Miliband's Labour party insists that it will not discuss any details of promised greater powers for the Scottish Parliament unless Scots vote against independence in the 2014 referendum.

Kenneth Gibson, SNP MSP for Cunninghame North, described the Labour leader's latest comments as "confused and hypocritical".  Accusing the Labour party of being "in cahoots" with the Tories on Scotland's constitutional and economic future, Mr Gibson added:

"Between their UK leader Ed Miliband, and their Scottish leader Johann Lamont, they are all at sixes and sevens.  It's hardly inspiring to say families will be better off under Westminster government when they also say it is making them £580 poorer.

"Labour are unable to square the circle of supporting the Tories on Scotland's constitutional and economic future whilst attacking them for making people worse off in the UK.

"In contrast the Scottish Government is providing help for households in tough times through our social wage, supporting vital public services in the face of severe Westminster cuts, whilst offering the people of Scotland a positive alternative with a say on their nation's future in a referendum on Scottish Independence.

"The people of Scotland deserve better and will not buy into this contradictory message which only exposes the complete lack of relevance of the Labour party in the debate on Scotland's future."

Polls have shown that two thirds of Scots want either full independence or a settlement that would see all powers, with the exception of Foreign Affairs and Defence, return to Scotland.

The SNP have argued for the Scottish Parliament to take control of the tax and benefits system in the interim saying it would allow them to protect Scottish families from Conservative led economic policies.


# Jimmy The Pict 2012-02-19 19:58

Ed is not making sense.
# RaboRuglen 2012-02-19 20:02
Hi there,

Oh dear, oh dear. Poor Labour. Trying to square the circle of moving further and further to the right to placate "middle England" if they are to have any hope of winning power at Westminster and hanging onto Scotland, which they also have to do if they are ever to achieve that feat.

Has a political party ever been so duplicitous with its own constituency? Chancers the lot of them.

Vote yes.

# lumilumi 2012-02-19 20:18
Well, thank god the Labour leader is a Millipede. Otherwise they'd run out of foots to shoot themselves in.
# handclapping 2012-02-19 20:21
Like it. LOL
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-19 21:33
# igster999 2012-02-19 22:33
Nice one Lumi.
# edinburgh quine 2012-02-19 23:33
Or to shove in his mouth!
# dogbite 2012-02-20 09:53
Nice one quine
# proudscot 2012-02-20 13:37
Quoting edinburgh quine:
Or to shove in his mouth!

And with THAT prehensile gub, he'd be able to get quite a few feet stuffed into it.
# handclapping 2012-02-19 20:19
A survey had the Scots voting for independence if it brought them £500. Will they vote for independence if it saves them £580?

Should we tell Scots this or would it be unsporting to the Unionists? I would tell them now so I could tell them again in 2014 when we are all poorer.
# scottish_skier 2012-02-19 20:21
I don't think anything Ed says is of any relevance to the vast majority of Scots. He regularly polls the same dissatisfaction rating as David Cameron (~70%) as a party leader. Only Nick Clegg gets one over on them, hitting an impressive 80% dissatisfied. And that's from Yougov with its Unionist weighting bias.
# mato21 2012-02-19 20:22
In case anyone needs reminding how obnoxious G.Foulkes is here is a reminder
# InfrequentAllele 2012-02-19 20:28
What SDA supporters (not "cybernats") deny is that Blair's government implemented devolution because it was a Labour manifesto commitment. So in his cack handed attempt to slur "cybernats", Foulkes has just likened a policy of his own government to the Holocaust.

Ah Georgie - cannae even insult people properly.
# GuidedByPollard 2012-02-19 20:30
Quoting mato21:
In case anyone needs reminding how obnoxious G.Foulkes is here is a reminder

Is there any depths they won't sink to?
# mato21 2012-02-19 20:34
Well when you fall into the gutter drunk the answer to your question is no
# Macart 2012-02-19 20:57
Just as well the gutter was there to catch him.
# Fungus 2012-02-19 21:28
He'll have been on the laughing ginger and just hit his keyboard at random.. You know what they say about monkeys and keyboards.
# Macart 2012-02-19 22:13
Hah! Shakespear it ain't. :D
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-19 21:38
mato, are you sure he already was drunk?

It sounds to me that he was on his way TO the bar not on his way FROM the bar. :D
# mato21 2012-02-19 21:47
Maybe, since he was even fighting the polis to get there
That's the lowlife we are meant to show respect to
I wouldn't spit on him if he self combusted
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-19 22:01
Inflammatory statement removed. – NNS Mod Team
# RaboRuglen 2012-02-20 08:38
Hi Mods,

You wrote above:- "Inflammatory statement removed". Had you noticed the post before it referred to "spontaneous combustion"?

Just kidding!

# mato21 2012-02-20 08:47
Morning Rab

There have been 200 cases cited over 300 years of self combustion Among the hypotheses for this is

Natural explanations based on an unknown and otherwise unobserved phenomenon (e.g., production of abnormally concentrated gas or raised levels of blood alcohol cause spontaneous ignition
# rhymer 2012-02-20 13:38
You doing micurstion jokes again rab ?
Pithy humor.
# scottish_skier 2012-02-19 20:37
Odd to have devolution in your manifesto when you previously organised a referendum (1979) on it and a majority YES vote was achieved. Kind of like the SNP having an independence referendum as a key manifesto commitment in an independent Scotland.
# Legerwood 2012-02-19 21:26
It would appear that the Coalition Government is no more disposed to release the papers relating to the setting up of Devol;ution than their predecessors. This from today's Sunday Herald:

LIBERAL Democrat ministers have been accused of hypocrisy after blocking the release, under Freedom of Information law (FoI), of cabinet papers showing early splits over devolution.

Despite priding themselves on pioneering FoI, the deputy prime minister Nick Clegg, Scottish Secretary Michael Moore and other senior LibDems vetoed the release by over-ruling a judgment of the UK's Information Commissioner.
The documents relate to the creation of devolution in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland at the outset of Tony Blair's New Labour government.
# Marga B 2012-02-19 22:16
Do moles still exist?
# edinburgh quine 2012-02-19 23:36
You should see our garden and the fields and roadsides all around us. there's thoosan's o them.
# Legerwood 2012-02-19 21:29
mato21 2012-02-19 20:22
In case anyone needs reminding how obnoxious G.Foulkes is here is a reminder

Well at least we now know he reads NNS since an article on this very subject appeared just a few days ago in NNS.
# Hirta 2012-02-19 21:51
Looking forward to seeing this twitter piece by (Lord) Foulkes reported in full tomorrow..
# K Mackay 2012-02-19 22:01
Is that twitter comment going to make it into the MSM? Can you imagine how much milage they'd get out of it if someone from the SNP said something like that! Be interesting to see, maybe someone with a TV could let me know :)
# Mac 2012-02-19 20:24

Poorer make us richer!

then that must mean;

Smaller makes us bigger!

Stupidity make us smarter!
# Hing em high 2012-02-19 20:24

Millipede leader of Lab in UK and Lamont leader of Lab in Scotland.I must be on the wacky stuff as I still cant believe it.
# colin8652 2012-02-19 20:37
Who is Ed milliband? :-s
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-19 21:19
Quoting colin8652:
Who is Ed milliband? :-s

According to my arithmetic, he is one of the most popular politicians in the country with a 70% dissatisfaction rating.
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-19 21:42
I think there are one hell of a lot of people throughout the U.K. asking that one colin. :D
# edinburgh quine 2012-02-19 23:41
Is he the one with the bird poo on the front of his hair. Surely a good shampoo could fix that?
# colin8652 2012-02-20 05:57
Oh i remember now, is he that Red Ed, who became pink millie, who is now turning into blue ted ?
# peter,aberdeenshire 2012-02-19 20:48
I would pay more taxes if Scotland was independent, at least I would be helping my country and not funding the ego of a failing state living off the dreams and memory of "the empire".
Another negative pile o pash from the unionist side.
# rob4i 2012-02-19 21:02
Scotland MUST,to be fair to England, vote yes to Independence which would enable the Tories to be in power for the foreseeable future or at least until Miliband is released from the asylum!!
# GrassyKnollington 2012-02-19 21:05
Cracking arithmetic Gromit !
# Wave Machine 2012-02-19 21:12
Foulkes is a Class A idiot....Oooppps have I insulted a Labour politician and fallen into a trap? Who cares.

I happened to be at work today, something Labour people like Foulkes won't understand and spotted a newspaper in the staff room. I think it was the Daily Mail, anyway, there was a piece about wee Duggie Alexander, I think he was in Wales and he was doing his Keir Hardie delusional routine again. Laughable.

Then I spotted a piece in the Herald on Sunday about the mess in Glasgow Labour circles, then I read Iain Macwhirter's essay in the same rag.

Then I began to feel good about the way things are going for Scotland.

Long may Foulkes and Alexander talk their dross, live in their own wee made up worlds and confirm to us all that stupidity is alive and well in the Unionist camp.

We only have to bide our time. They are the ones who have to cast stupidity aside and that's a big ask when you are fundamentally, terminally stupid!
# Legerwood 2012-02-19 21:32
Then I spotted a piece in the Herald on Sunday about the mess in Glasgow Labour circles, then I read Iain Macwhirter's essay in the same rag.

I think you were reading last week's Sunday Herald.

Today's paper was all about Rangers and Mr McWhirter's article was promoting the pro-Union idea of legal challenges, Supremem COurt and Westminster ignoring a YES vote in the referendum etc etc.
# lumilumi 2012-02-19 21:13
I think the problem, from Westminster's point of view, is that "we're not a world power anymore, no matter how hard we try", and certain "regions" of the UK have had a taste of true democracy, and now want more.

Scotland will leave the dysfunctional union and thereby solve the West Lothian question. The unionists will be left screaming and spluttering. The bl***y Jocks took their trough away, it's not fair blah blah. Silly tossers.

I dread to think what would happen if Scotland voted "no" because then the English establishment would put uppity Jocks in their place for the next 20 years or more.
# RJBH 2012-02-19 21:19
I cant believe theres many in Scotland who take Ed seriously...Socialist millionaire.. detached as much from reality on the ground as much as the Eton old boy.
# J Wil 2012-02-19 23:19
"I cant believe theres many in Scotland who take Ed seriously"

Not on the strength of the picture above anyway. More Laurel than Hardy.
# rhymer 2012-02-19 21:28
J. LamontJ is following his lead and wee Ruthie is hovering somewhere in the vicinity of Dave and W. Rennie is still waiting to be beamed up.

Geez! No wonder Eck smiles a lot.
# lumilumi 2012-02-19 21:48
I always enjoy FMQs on Thursdays, the way Eck decimates the opposition with facts, figures and good-natured banter.

The problem is that Scottish independence is not only the SNP. OK, so they're the only major party which states Scotland's independence as their goal. Many people vote for the SNP to get better local governance, not to get indepence. In an independent Scotland they'd never vote for the SNP but they'll do it now, to get independence. After that, the political map will be totally redrawn.
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-19 22:11
I reckon FMQ's this week has the potential to be an absolute cracker! :D
# GerrySNP 2012-02-20 03:16
But if it is going to be redrawn sensibly it will require the indepentally-minded members of all the anti-independence Parties to come out of the closet and join the YES campaign, disagreeing publicly with their "betters".
Remember that the Tories died the death after 1999 because they had fought Holyrood's existence all the way to the first election. It could happen to Labour the same, and we could lose the representation of the good Labour values along with the hacks and the money and power grubbers.
# Mad Jock McMad 2012-02-19 21:42
Us older punters know that Mr Ed is a talking horse .....
# mato21 2012-02-19 21:51

That's right and he needed someone to pull his strings to nake him work and he had a right gobfull of teeth if I remember right and that's the horse I'm talking about in case there is any misunderstandin g
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-19 22:04
# Edna Caine 2012-02-19 23:50

Why the long face?
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-20 00:34
Perhaps the millipede should play this before making an appearance anywhere.
# mato21 2012-02-20 00:51
You're a right nag I mean wag
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-20 01:53
nag nag nag,
nag nag nag.

Oops I mean wag wag wag. :D
# Angus 2012-02-19 21:42
Is it insecurity that make some unionists what they are?
I have a workmate who is the only unionist amongst 6 of us. He told us we do better in Union, and said that Scotland gives 100% of the oil, gas and whisky revenues, to London, it is then shared between England, N. Ireland, Scotland and Wales. When asked would we no be better with 100% of this revenue instead of 8.6% his answer was NO, even though he couldnt work this out! wtf?
What the Independence movement is missing is a statistical library, this would give us, the ambassadors for Independence, the ammunition in which to blow the unionists out of the water. The SNP should have something on their site that helps to arm us!
# Exile 2012-02-20 06:05
Can't be helped, Angus. Terminally stupid is terminally tupid.
# rapid 2012-02-20 12:55
one thing not really talked about is what effect on England would there be for an independent Scotland?

If our closest trading partner (England) had a huge economic slump post Scottish independence (perhaps from a credit downgrade) then there would be read-across for Scotland. I wonder if that's why the current plan is to retain currency union with F.UK so that there is not a quick acting currency imbalance as predicted by McCrone (Scottish pound)
# ianbeag 2012-02-19 21:49
O/T Much has been written about the minutes from the Cabinet meetings concerning Devolution in 1997 and 1998 which have been embargoed and not made available through FOI requests. The significance of these meetings is that they were attended by a large number of Scottish Labour ministers and under Secretaries of State whom we can assume were instrumental in neutralising as many of the powers as they could. I have come across this interesting link on a New Statesman blog from a couple of days ago with two comments from one Stuart Eels (Feb 17 at 12.58 and 15.52) an English gentleman who is a member of the Campaign for an English Parliament who submitted one of FOI requests for these Cabinet papers and was refused. He explains that the Information Commissioner's Office stated that David Cameron intends to exclude public access via FOI requests to all future Cabinet meetings and minutes. This from the man who promised full transparency of Government business.The importance of this posting is that Mr Eels has listed the Ministers and Under Secretaries who attended these meetings -
Gordon Brown; Malcolm Chisholm; Tom Clarke; Robin Cook; Alistair Darling; Donald Dewar; George Foulkes; Sam Galbraith; Helen Liddell; Calum MacDonald; Michael Martin; John McFall; Henry McLeish; John Reid; George Robertson; Nigel Griffiths; Adam Ingram; Gavin Strang; Brian Wilson; and Tony Worthington. Others may be aware of this list before but this is the first time I've seen it.
Coming after the revelations of the McCrone Report and the other equally devastating secret State papers by the Treasury of the implications to the UK of losing N.S oil revenues -file:///D:/2011%20Referendum%20debate/State%20papers%20on%20Scotland%20%20Implications%20for%20External%20Financing..htm you can draw your own conclusions about the input from the 19 representatives of the Scottish people in Westminster.
# jafurn 2012-02-19 22:10
(two comments from one Stuart Eels (Feb 17 at 12.58 and 15.52) )

The one at 12-58 is not there anymore.

Interesting guest list...oh to have been a fly on the wall there.
Where is wikileaks when you need them?
# ianbeag 2012-02-19 22:55
fafburn - Apologies, the first comment was timed at 12.28 and is still there. Here is the text

Stuart Eels
17 February 2012 at 12:28
Gaia Hepburh 9.28
I could take offense at your comments but won't bother. The Cabinet Meeting concerning Devolution in 1997 and 1998 were made up of 15 Scottish Ministers, 5 Scottish under Secretaires of State, 2 Welsh Ministers and 12 ENGLISH, if you class Blair as English. All Those Scottish Ministers and Under Secretaries had signed the Scottish Claim of Right 10 years previously.
It was me that made the Freedom of Information Request concerning these Meetings, I am a Member of The Campaign for an English Parliament and of an Englishman.
I would not be as insulting about Scots as you and others here are about the English, you seem to revel in trying to outdo each other in your rudeness.
# GerrySNP 2012-02-20 03:24
I would not be as insulting about Scots as you and others here are about the English, you seem to revel in trying to outdo each other in your rudeness.
I personally would wish to apologise for some of the comments to which you refer. You should know that many members of the SNP are totally in favour of an English Parliament, even though they may feel that Westminster has acted for too long as if it was already just that. Our answer to the West Lothian question has always been - No Scottish members there!
# jafurn 2012-02-20 11:10
Apologies in advance if I am misreading your comment but are you aware that what you are responding to is a comment from
(Stuart Eels
17 February 2012 at 12:28
Gaia Hepburh 9.28)

"I would not be as insulting about Scots as you and others here are about the English, you seem to revel in trying to outdo each other in your rudeness."

this is not a comment from newsnetscotland .

you say
"I personally would wish to apologise for some of the comments to which you refer." but the comment you are referring to here is from another site.

Again apologies if I misread you.
# jafurn 2012-02-20 11:11
Thanks for the update # ianbeag
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-19 21:58
When Westminster is not going on about how great it is for us to be part of the U.K. they are looking at cutting the U.K.'s armed forces and cutting the number of M.P.'s to name two contested areas.

Well, I have a solution, and to quote an over used phrase, "It's not rocket science!"

Give Scotland FULL Independence NOW!

This will enable the M.O.D. to make significant savings and NO cuts to their overall manpower. How's that I hear you ask. Quite simple really. An Independent Scotland would be "acquiring" our own armed services. These services quite naturally would come from our portion of the "Union dividend". Problem solved.

Next we can help Westminster with their reduction in M.P.'s. An Independent Scotland would remove the requirement for ANY Scottish M.P. to be at Westminster. Problem solved.

Third the never ending "West Lothian Question!" Quite simply, a Fully Independent Scotland would instantly remove ALL Scottish M.P.'s from Westminster, "West Lothian Question" disappears in an instant.


God I should be an M.P.

Naw on second thoughts I couldn't handle having to deal with all those idiots! :D
# Macart 2012-02-19 22:21
GREAT GOOGLEY MOOGLEY!!!!!! Don't you dare consider running for office!

They couldn't stand the body count! :D
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-19 22:30
Hell, you never know it could be fun. Can you imagine the look on the faces of the unionist hopefuls if ARBY the SARKY was voted in as an M.P.?
# Macart 2012-02-19 22:33
Don't, ah've just had enough tae drink and a fit o' the giggles is close! :D
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-19 22:37
I didn't realise tea was that potent a drink! :D

I guess I'd better cut back on my own tea consumption in that case. :D
# Macart 2012-02-19 22:40
Ye huv tae get just the right ratio of Orange Pekoe tae toilet duck n' Whisky. Its tricky but gives ye guaranteed uninterrupted sleep. :D
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-19 22:43
Ah that's what I'm missing...... TOILET DUCK! :D
# Macart 2012-02-19 22:45
G'night bud, keep em at it till the wee small hours. :D
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-19 22:47
Wilco! :D
# mato21 2012-02-19 22:47
So we're back on thread again with the DUCK
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-19 22:59
# rhymer 2012-02-20 13:45
Quoting Arbroath1320:
Ah that's what I'm missing...... TOILET DUCK! :D

He gets hot flushes though
# mato21 2012-02-19 22:22
Is your snout big enough mind it has to get right into the trough to get the tastiest morsels

Mrs Arby fancy a flitting like to your 2nd house?
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-19 22:34
Thinking about it my snout couldn't handle being in the trough with all those other greedy b*****s! I have a snout that oozes CLASS!

As far as having a 2nd house I wouldn't thank you for one in London. Having spent 10 years in London working in a real job I don't think I could handle life in London for a second time!
# mato21 2012-02-19 22:38
I'm really glad you put class at the end of that sentence The alternative doesn't bear thinking about
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-19 22:42
I'm not even going to go there. :D
# lumilumi 2012-02-19 22:31
Yeah, all problems solved.

Why don't we have no-nonsense intelligent local/regional politicians discussion?

Because the Labour party has an iron grip. It's nothing to do with local people or the ability of the candidate. Just as long as they toe the party line and forget that Scotland is actually a (troublesome) country.

Would you ever vote for that to continue?
No, I didn't think so. Scotland MUST vote yes to save themselves.
# Keef 2012-02-20 10:29
Why is the great problems always solved by the most simple of answers.
Just too cool Arbroath 1320.
Don't forget the huge saving on dumping the Sec. of State for Scotland as well :-)
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-20 12:42
Why is the great problems always solved by the most simple of answers.

I think this explains a great deal about my thought processes, or more importantly lack of. :D
# sneckedagain 2012-02-19 22:26
I thinbk Macwhirter's piece in today's Sunday Herald was fair enough. He likes to be provocative from time to time which helps greatly in defining positions.
He mentions "confederal" which is sensibly where we are going
# alicmurray 2012-02-19 22:45
Sorry to go off topic please see

Article from Tory blogger about federalism in Britain. Hope I've done this right.
# jafurn 2012-02-19 22:54
Quoting alicmurray:
Sorry to go off topic please see

Article from Tory blogger about federalism in Britain. Hope I've done this right.

That link didn't work but I think this is the article you were referring to.

Apologies if I got it wrong
# mato21 2012-02-19 22:48
Linkie no working Sorry
# alicmurray 2012-02-19 22:52
Sorry Mato I,m not good at this. Link should end in -uk
# mato21 2012-02-19 22:55
It still isn't found and no worries I'm hopeless
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-19 23:09
Quoting mato21:
It still isn't found

Have you tried looking behind the positive case for the union?
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-19 23:47
You mean there is a positive case for the union?
# jafurn 2012-02-19 23:15
Quoting mato21:
It still isn't found and no worries I'm hopeless

link is here
# twinpowr 2012-02-19 22:58
So ED says we will be worse off, but better off. WHAT. Make yer mind up will you. ed is clearly in cahoots with his public school boy toffs.
# alicmurray 2012-02-19 23:01
Thank you Jafurn and mato21. I just thought this article of interest because this blogger has a lot of pull within the Tory party.
# mato21 2012-02-19 23:18
Got it through jafruns link I agree it was worth a read even the comments that I read were mostly supportive of indy Thanks
# clootie 2012-02-19 23:06
I know how his brother felt now!
# roboftheburnawn 2012-02-19 23:08
just watched Darling on iplayer - what a waffling plonker, could'nt put 2 coherent sentences together.
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-19 23:46
I know there is a hell of a difference between mathematical equations and reality but some of you who are mathematically inclined might find this article interesting.
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-19 23:57
Sorry if people have read this, but I've just come across it.

Who says small countries can't have a major effect on the intrnational stage?

Here's a couple of other articles that might make for some interesting reading.
# mato21 2012-02-20 00:12
There are those who look on Indy as to how it would affect us then there are the others The oh woe is me how dare they do anything that may rock our boat I think we'll manage fine without the obsenity on the Clyde
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-20 00:24
Now that the realisation is slowly, very slowly, sinking onto the psyche of the Americans I wonder if the three party NO campaign will soon be turned into the four party NO campaign.
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-20 00:25
Quoting mato21:
I think we'll manage fine without the obsenity on the Clyde

Sorry, but if Scotland is independent then Glasgow is part of the package.
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-20 12:45
Jiggsbro, I think mato was referring to the W.M.D.s currnetly parked up near Glasgow not Glasgow or the Clyde themselves specifically.
# Jiggsbro 2012-02-20 12:53
I got that. I was just having a little fun at the expense of GCC.
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-20 20:10
Sorry for butting in where I am obviously not needed. :D
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-20 00:52
I think there could be some very "interesting" times ahead. Especially if this article in the Express is anything to go by.
# mato21 2012-02-20 01:05
Interesting is putting it mildly. This will be a right wind up for call me Dave when one of his plebs relays it to him in the morning Too downmarket for his eyes Oh to be a fly on the wall
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-20 01:10
Just found another piece.

Make sure you are sitting down and there is nothing easy to hand when you go here. A sturdy sick bucket would be an added accessory as well!

There is also this little ditty. Paul Scott had raised the question of Scottish membership of the E.U. 20 years ago, and answered the question. Looks like the self same question is still being asked but the questioners are all tone deaf.
# Macart 2012-02-20 06:42
Interesting wee piece on the Americans you posted above. They are apparently now taking the independence referendum seriously. Have to say I don't like their track record in dealing with Scotland recently, but they are still an ally. I think they are finding it hard to understand why anyone would want to pull out of Nato or throw away the expensive nuclear toys when so many other countries would give their teeth to have them. Heh, the concept that some countries just want to live in peace with their neighbours and cut along is completely alien to the poor souls.

As for Willie Rennie's quote?!?! Of course independence means we'll be talking to hundreds of countries, its what grown ups do and its what we don't do right now. We'll get all sorts of new and interesting friends to talk to and have influence with. Obviously Willie thinks that we're not able to talk to grown ups and its way too expensive. That wee laddie shouldn't be allowed out on his own.
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-20 13:03
Well he does spend most of his time driving buses Macart. :D
# rhymer 2012-02-20 13:50
Quoting Arbroath1320:
Well he does spend most of his time driving buses Macart. :D

Nah.. It is imaginary Edinburgh tram cars.
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-20 13:58
Ding! Ding!
# art1001 2012-02-20 12:56
I would like Hazel's view on the constitutional implications of a break up of the UK State for all the colonial territories and dependencies created after the 1707 Treat of Union. Gibralter also springs to mind.

The entity they are dependent on will effectively cease to exist. They would have to renegotiate their status either with England or Scotland surely.

Maybe at that time Argentina could come calling with an offer that they could live with.
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-20 13:08
Just thinking outside the box I seem to recall that Scotland's "share" of the U.K. and its "assets" is around 8.5%. Apologies if I've got that wrong. Anyway does any one know what 8.5% of the Falklands looks like?

Do we get some of the land or is it the penguins that we get?

I'm not sure what 8.5% of Gibraltar looks like, the airport perhaps?
# mato21 2012-02-20 01:13
I had read that one earlier I didn't bother with Ruthie or Willies articles that was enough for one session
# Marga B 2012-02-20 17:00
What happens with assets presumably being sold off during English health privatisation? Whose hands will they end up in? Will there be Barnett consequences?

Extensively documented list of politicians with health trade connections/employment/directorships to declare:

# oldnat 2012-02-20 17:33
The current plans in England don't include privatisation - yet!

However, the clear implications are that allowing commissioning from the private sector by groups of doctors will lead to them setting up their own private health facilities, to which they will send patients and charge taxpayers for the costs. That would then lead to NHS facilities becoming uneconomic and closing - to be bought out at knock down prices by those private health companies, who will then be better able to provide more facilities, and so the merry-go-round will continue until in England medical facilities will all be in the hands of the private sector,charging the taxpayer whatever they choose.
# gopher3 2012-02-20 18:08
If the residents of the Falklands are descended from Scots, does that mean we can claim the rights to all the Oil Fields that have been found in the waters around the Islands.???
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-20 20:09
Oops I forgot about the Falklands oil.

Sorry Mr penguin your on your own, Falklands oil here we come. :D
# oldnat 2012-02-20 20:22
We could share the oil with the Argentinians.
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-20 20:29
Ah there you go oldnat using the infamous "S" word. :D

As we all know Scotland,like the vast majority of other countries in the world, is quite open to "sharing". Unfortunately, Westminster does not do "Sharing".

I think the Argentines AND the Falkland Islanders may very well be hoping an Independent Scotland "gets" the Falklands oil. :D

At least if we did then there would certainly be less chance of the current animosity reaching anything like the current level of mutual hatred.
# mato21 2012-02-20 20:35
I see they would like us to share our water too Well we will share it for a price Thank goodness we still have that asset

It couls be a wee wet goldmine
# Arbroath1320 2012-02-20 20:54
Hi mato. I saw how the "poor" wee souls in the South East are running short of water.

Well I didn't really see what their problem is. As I said in my last post, Scotland is a country open to sharing.

Let's not forget we are talking about a supply and demand scenario here. We have the supply and they are in demand. :D

That said we not stupid, despite claims to the contrary from down south, I'm sure we can come to some sort of financial arrangement. How does £1,500 per barrel sound? :D

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